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Author Topic: [Standard] 4 extra turns for 5 mana!!!!Standard Khans  (Read 2605 times)

tristanelkhatib

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[Standard] 4 extra turns for 5 mana!!!!Standard Khans
« on: October 01, 2014, 05:58:20 pm »
7 extra turns for 5 mana!!!!StandardKhans

Complete stupididty happens when Hardened Scales and Sage of Hours are out together.

The combo mainly involves the three cards Hardened Scales, Sage of Hours, and Solidarity of Heroes.

T1:forest, Hardened Scales
T2:island, Sage of Hours
T3:Solidarity of Heroes

The combo works because Hardened Scales is unbelievably compatible with Heroic abilities that add counters. Play an instant that add counters to a creature and BOOM. The creature's Heroic ability goes on the stack, followed by Hardened Scales, and then the instant resolves which triggers Hardened Scales a second time!
So, let's put Sage of Hours in as our Heroic creature and Solidarity of Heroes in as our instant that put counters on. Fully explained, this is how it's done:
Play both Hardened Scales and Sage
Target Sage with Solidarity of Heroes
Sage's heroic triggers (total counters=1)
Hardened Scales triggers (total counters=2)
Instant resolves (total counters=4)
Hardened Scales triggers (total counters=5)
Activate Sage's ability

Now this combo can be pulled off as early as turn 3 in a regular standard game with Khans of Tarkir just coming out. This combo is easily compatible with any green mana ramp deck and a lot of new blue/green creature decks.

Casting Howl of the Horde makes the combo even more insanely stupid. After swinging with any creature you can cast Howl, it's Raid ability will trigger and then you can cast Solidarity of Heroes which will be copied twice for a grand total of doubling Sage's counters three times.
It'll go a little something like this:
Play both Hardened Scales and Sage
Swing with a creature
Go to second main phase
Cast Howle of the Horde
Cast and target Sage w/ Solidarity of Heroes
Howl of the Horde triggers
Howl of the Horde's Raid ability triggers
Solidarity of Heroes is copied twice
Sage's heroic triggers (total counters=1)
Hardened Scales triggers (total counters=2)
1st instant resolves (total counters=4)
Hardened Scales triggers (total counters=5)
Target Sage w/ Solidarity of Heroes
2nd instant resolves (total counters=10))
Hardened Scales triggers (total counters=11)
Ttarget Sage w/ Solidarity of Heroes
2nd instant resolves (total counters=22)
Hardened Scales triggers (total counters=23)
Activate Sage's ability
Enjoy your 24/24 creature or your next 4 turns!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 11:28:25 am by tristanelkhatib »

Vic Hattenshue

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Re: [Standard] 7 extra turns for 5 mana!!!!StandardKhans
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 06:17:52 pm »
Looks like a lot of fun, I'd have to build it in Cockatrice and play in the sandpit in order to appreciate it fully and comment more constructively.
...for I am a stranger in a strange land!

Drunk Cynic

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Re: [Standard] 7 extra turns for 5 mana!!!!StandardKhans
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2014, 07:14:44 pm »
Howl of the Horde doesn't work that way. The copy/copies it creates are just that; they don't count as being cast, so they wouldn't trigger the heroic ability of Sage of Hours. From the rulings of gatherer:

9/20/2014   When either ability resolves, it creates a copy of the instant or sorcery spell. You control each copy. Each copy is created on the stack, so it’s not “cast.” Abilities that trigger when a player casts a spell won’t trigger. The copy or copies will then resolve like normal spells, after players get a chance to cast spells and activate abilities.

What does happen:
With Hardened Scales and Sage of Hours in play, in the second main after having attacked, you cast Howl of the Horde and Solidarity of Heroes.

Howl of Horde generates two delayed triggers, one for the cast and one from raid. Casting Solidarity, targeting Sage of Hours, triggers the Heroic Ability and the delayed triggers. As the controller of the three "Whenever" Triggers, you place them on the stack in the order most beneficial to you, with the Heroic resolving first. Influenced by the static ability of Hardened Scales, 2 counters are placed on Sage of Hours. The two triggers from Howl of the Horde Resolve, creating two copies of Solidarity of Heroes on the stack (three total).

A: 2 * doubling = 4 + Hardened Scales = 5
B: 5 * Doubling = 10 + Hardened Scales = 11
C: 11 * Doubling = 22 + Hardened Scales = 23

Sorry.
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tristanelkhatib

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Re: [Standard] 7 extra turns for 5 mana!!!!StandardKhans
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2014, 11:20:58 am »
@drunkcynic, thank you very much for the correction. Taking away those few +1/+1 counters does make a difference, a big one at that. I'll update the deck soon. I still think that Hardened Scales and the possibility of spending 5 mana to get 23 +1/+1 counters and 4 extra turns is a huge advantage. It seems to be a reliable combo and not that dependent on most of it's cards. If you do not have Howl or Sage in your hand, you can still use Hardened to your benefit as well as Solidarity. I will probably finish the deck around the combo, just to see how far it will go first. I really appreciate the help; I wouldn't have ever corrected myself if you hadn't pointed that out. Thank you!