Helping get a beginning player a better deck

[keagster]

cryptbreaker is a great manual discard/token generator

[aizbert065]

lightning axe, fiery temper and furyblade vampire are cards i posted in my list, and the insolent neonate would replace putrid imp in a modern version and a standard version, or if you prefer it can replace the olivia's dragoon in my version, it is a good card for sure.

talking about prophetic ravings, i personally like this card, and if you want you can replace a copy of dark withering and two copies of tormenting voice to insert 3 copies of it.

indeed my list is what i feel confortable to play, but it's not necessarely the same for anyone else. i suggest you to prox cards in my list and start to play this "faked deck", and modify it following what you feel it's better, eventually having the replacements that we suggested

[robort]

lol lets keep it simple and keep it in standard...

Call the Bloodline Sinister Concoction Wolf of Devil's Breach Mad Prophet

[TheWakaEmu117]

Personally I don't like Mad Prophet because I think Prophetic Ravings does the same thing to any creature and it has a cheaper mana cost. I love call to the blood line because it also acts as a token generator.

Does putting the top card of your library allow for madness triggers if the card has a madness cost, or is that just milling and you can't cast it for its madness cost?

The intro pack came with a sinister concoction and that's a fine card I think. So is the creature base vampires? if so stensia Masquerade might be a good addition. But if its a combination of zombies and vampires I don't think masquerade is as good.

[keagster]

YOu have to discard from hand to use madness

[TheWakaEmu117]

okay so you can't madness twice off of sinister concoction. 

[aizbert065]

one of the best cards in standard for kinds of decks like this is collective brutality for sure... anyway tomorrow i'll try to build a standard version of the deck. i don't like mad prophet anyway

[robort]

Sinister concoction says "put" then discard.

Since it was mentioned and vampires was brought up. I forget the name of the card but it gives all your vampire creature spells madness.
Prophet is good because of haste, it's the 3 mana cost the scares people off and  Prophetic Ravings does the same thing but why put it on a creature that is one of your threats? Tapping a 3/2 creature, a 3/3 or a 1/4 by discarding (hopefully you hold a madness card in hand) and then drawing. Taking away some of your board presence. Now you go to play  Prophetic Ravings on a creature and your opponent destroys, exiles or bounces that creature. It can happen to prophet but only after he resolves and you could still use his discard outlet if opponent destroys, exiles or bounces that creature

[TheWakaEmu117]

Mad Prophet is 4 mana which is why i don't like him, but you are right he is more reliable than prophetic ravings. It seems like this is coming together quite nicely. Falkenrath Gorger is the card that gives all vampires madness, if this shapes in to a R/B vampire madness deck he would be awesome. But if it does turn into vampires which it kind of already is I am not sure about running crypt breaker because its a zombie. I think we have put together a sizable amount of madness outlets to make the deck better.

[TheWakaEmu117]

here is the intro pack deck list that he has. It is actually more focused on vampires with a secondary madness theme but I don't like the build very much. I don't remember what I took out or put in, I know I threw a copy of murder in there but I don't remember what I took out to put it in.
 https://deckstats.net/decks/61302/557554-soi-vampiric-thirst-intro-deck

[aizbert065]

robot prophetic ravings is better because it's really much faster.. with the mad prophet you start discarding on turn 5 if you're lucky, because it's true that you can play it on turn 4 and it has haste..but where do you find the mana to play the discarded card? prophetic ravings must be placed on a creature you mean to block with, activating it's ability in response to the block. if you play it on a 1/4 creature or a 1 cmc creature or a creature with vigilance it is really good.. mad prophet can't stand a combat since it's a 2/2.

falkenrath gorger sounds quite useless.. anyway thank you TheWakaEmu for posting the list

[Jabilac]

https://deckstats.net/decks/50939/556858-madness-rb-aggro-and-destructi/en  if this is still the current decklist then:

Stromkirk Condemned - Vampire, free discard with benefits for all your Vamps
Cryptbreaker - It was mentioned earlier.  More expensive then Call the Bloodline but a stronger token and he has a built in card draw ability... kinda pricy but its there.
Collective Brutality - was mentioned earlier but its a pretty nice card for enabling Madness.

Stromkirk Occultist - not a discard outlet at all but does give card advantage when it connects and if you consider Stensia Masquerade from an earlier post then it is a great addition

I know you guys have already talked about Prophetic Ravings vs Mad Prophet but I think the fact that Mad Prophet is only 1 card and Prophetic Ravings requires a second card is being overlooked.  If your creature gets removed before the spell can resolve then you lose tempo because your down 1 card even if they just remove your blocker or 1 mana creature.  Every card slot is important because cards are another resource in Magic.  Its the same reason cards like Lumbering Falls or Celestial Colonnade get used and cards like Genju of the Cedars or Genju of the Falls do not.  Every card slot is important and every card you draw is important.  Losing 2 cards to your opponents 1 is generally bad.

[TheWakaEmu117]

I like all of the cards Jabilac mentioned, they are all pretty good but a little pricey for cryptbreaker and collective brutality. As for Prophetic Raving vs Mad Prophet I don't think either of them will go into the deck but I think I will use prophetic ravings as a temporary card which will help him get used to using activated abilities to enable madness. Looking at the cards we think would be good plus the https://deckstats.net/decks/50939/556858-madness-rb-aggro-and-destructi/en list, there are very few cards in the intro pack deck that would actually be used lol. But I am fine with that because that way I can use the intro deck to help him practice with madness. Also I think I have one copy of Collective Brutality, so should I play it even if it isn't a play set?, and this question goes for any good card that may be kinda pricey.
I put 2 copies of prophetic ravings, 1 murder, 1 stensia masquerade, 1 wailing ghoul( idk why) and, 1 ruthless disposal.
I took out 2 sanguinary mage, 1 vampire noble, 2 malevolent whispers, and 1 murderous compulsion

[KouriNick]

Look like I'm a little late to the party, and a lot of great ideas have been posted here!

Mine is a little out there. It would involve keeping the deck Red/Black and madness themed, but instead of being vampire heavy, it would be spell heavy, and based around Thermo-Alchemist + Prophetic Ravings.

Having the option to ether tap for Damage or tap to loot is incredibly powerful, and since he's an 0/3 you aren't losing a big threat. He also uptaps every instant and sorcery spell, making Fiery Temper insanely good (Tap Therm-alchemist, discard and cast Fiery Temper, draw a card, untap Thermo-alchemist). It isn't exactly on theme with vampires, but it's something to think about. in a spell heavy Red/Black deck, Alchemist + Prophetic ravings could chain into some serious card advantage.

of course the exact list would be up to you, but in my head it would look something like this:

//Land
11 Swamp
11 Mountain

//Creatures
4 Thermo-Alchemist
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Olivia's Dragoon
2 Bloodmad Vampire
2 Bloodhall Priest

//Spells
2 Alchemist's Greeting
2 Avacyn's Judgement
4 Alms in the Vein
4 Fiery Temper
4 Murderous Compulsion
2 Lightning Axe

//Other
4 Prophetic Ravings

With the major win conditions being the Madness Vampires and Alms in the Vein (usually a card I don't recommend, but when you can always cast it for 1 and typically draw an extra card off it, it gets way better). I imagine you already have a huge percentage of this deck and it should cost WAY less than $65. Swapping out a couple Alchemist's Greeting or Murderous Compulsion for Abandon Reason or Distemper of the Blood could tune for how you and your father play.

Just something to think about. Enjoy

[Jabilac]

Mine is a little out there. It would involve keeping the deck Red/Black and madness themed, but instead of being vampire heavy, it would be spell heavy, and based around Thermo-Alchemist + Prophetic Ravings.

If you are going to use Prophetic Ravings then this is a great idea I hadn't considered.  Built-in untap trigger that combo's extremely well with non-creature madness spells.  This combo could outweigh the negatives I mentioned earlier because of the untap trigger.

Also I think I have one copy of Collective Brutality, so should I play it even if it isn't a play set?, and this question goes for any good card that may be kinda pricey.

I would use the single copy I had and slowly replace the ones I was missing.  Also Proxy cards can be printed fairly easily if you are just playing for fun or practice.  I use Proxy cards sometimes when I can't afford or can't find the copies of a card I want/need but my playgroup is ok with a few Proxies as long as it isn't permament.  I also use Proxies before I invest in any large purchases (any card over $3 a copy) to make sure I am not wasting cash.