Interaction Question

[ladof]

So I was browsing my collection and ran into an interesting question. Combat Celebrant and Lightning Runner have similar abilities. Can you combo them (assuming an abundance of energy) and have basically unending combat steps?

So in theory:

Begin Combat
Exert Combat Celebrant, attack with all
Untap everything but Combat Celebrant, including Lightning Runner
Attack with all, paying 8 energy with Lightning Runner.
Untap Everything, including Combat Celebrant
Attack with everything, exerting Combat Celebrant.

rinse and repeat until out of energy (which, just the above nets just a -2 energy, since Lightning Runner gains 2 every attack and attacks three times for 6 total.) In theory, having two lightning runners on the board should allow you to go infinite attack steps. Am I wrong?

[Soren841]

That could work, I can't think very hard on it bc I have to go to the bathroom but I'll get back to u after if someone else doesn't first 

[CardAgain Sweater]

So I was browsing my collection and ran into an interesting question. Combat Celebrant and Lightning Runner have similar abilities. Can you combo them (assuming an abundance of energy) and have basically unending combat steps?

So in theory:

Begin Combat
Exert Combat Celebrant, attack with all
Untap everything but Combat Celebrant, including Lightning Runner
Attack with all, paying 8 energy with Lightning Runner.
Untap Everything, including Combat Celebrant
Attack with everything, exerting Combat Celebrant.

rinse and repeat until out of energy (which, just the above nets just a -2 energy, since Lightning Runner gains 2 every attack and attacks three times for 6 total.) In theory, having two lightning runners on the board should allow you to go infinite attack steps. Am I wrong?

I think you would need some starting energy and 2 of LR to make it go infinite, and then we are assuming the creatures are not sustaining damage each combat round, here it is with only 1 of each:

Combat 1: attack with all, exert CC, gain 2 energy, fight, untap all other than CC
Combat 2: attack with all but CC, gain 2 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR
Combat 3: attack with all but LR, exert CC, fight, no energy gained/spent, untap all other than CC
Combat 4: attack with all but CC, gain 2 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR

As you can see, I figure the cycle is -4 for 2 combats - so unless you start with lots of energy, this can't go infinite with just one creature earning energy. With only LR, the above 4 combats would need to start with 10 energy, and 4 combats is the limit.

Now with LR1 and LR2, or instead of a 2nd LR, another creature that gains 2 energy by attacking:

Combat 1: attack with all, exert CC, gain 4 energy, fight, untap all other than CC
Combat 2: attack with all but CC, gain 4 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR1
Combat 3: attack with all but LR1, exert CC, fight, gain 2 energy, untap all other than CC
Combat 4: attack with all but CC, gain 4 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR1

This way you only need 2 energy to start a 4 combat cycle, end the cycle at 0 energy. Thats the way I read it.

EDIT - Actually, it is a six combat cycle in both scenarios, as at the end of the 4th combat, CC gets untapped; then 5th combat exerting CC, untapping all but CC for 6th combat, but then back to energy deficit, 6+/- short depending on what you started with.

[entropize]

There is a way to make this become infinite. If you have two lightning runners and the combat celebrant, it would go like this:

Combat 1: attack with all, exert CC, gain 4 energy, fight, untap all other than CC
Combat 2: attack with all but CC, gain 4 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all
Combat 3: attack with all, exert CC, fight, gain 4 energy, untap all other than CC
Combat 4: attack with all but CC, gain 4 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all
rince, cycle, repeat. So CardAgain Sweater is correct except the runners untap.

This all depends on if your opponent is unable to block and destroy the lightning runners and the combat celebrant.

[ladof]

So I was browsing my collection and ran into an interesting question. Combat Celebrant and Lightning Runner have similar abilities. Can you combo them (assuming an abundance of energy) and have basically unending combat steps?

So in theory:

Begin Combat
Exert Combat Celebrant, attack with all
Untap everything but Combat Celebrant, including Lightning Runner
Attack with all, paying 8 energy with Lightning Runner.
Untap Everything, including Combat Celebrant
Attack with everything, exerting Combat Celebrant.

rinse and repeat until out of energy (which, just the above nets just a -2 energy, since Lightning Runner gains 2 every attack and attacks three times for 6 total.) In theory, having two lightning runners on the board should allow you to go infinite attack steps. Am I wrong?

I think you would need some starting energy and 2 of LR to make it go infinite, and then we are assuming the creatures are not sustaining damage each combat round, here it is with only 1 of each:

Combat 1: attack with all, exert CC, gain 2 energy, fight, untap all other than CC
Combat 2: attack with all but CC, gain 2 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR
Combat 3: attack with all but LR, exert CC, fight, no energy gained/spent, untap all other than CC
Combat 4: attack with all but CC, gain 2 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR

As you can see, I figure the cycle is -4 for 2 combats - so unless you start with lots of energy, this can't go infinite with just one creature earning energy. With only LR, the above 4 combats would need to start with 10 energy, and 4 combats is the limit.

Now with LR1 and LR2, or instead of a 2nd LR, another creature that gains 2 energy by attacking:

Combat 1: attack with all, exert CC, gain 4 energy, fight, untap all other than CC
Combat 2: attack with all but CC, gain 4 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR1
Combat 3: attack with all but LR1, exert CC, fight, gain 2 energy, untap all other than CC
Combat 4: attack with all but CC, gain 4 energy, fight, spend 8 energy, untap all other than LR1

This way you only need 2 energy to start a 4 combat cycle, end the cycle at 0 energy. Thats the way I read it.

EDIT - Actually, it is a six combat cycle in both scenarios, as at the end of the 4th combat, CC gets untapped; then 5th combat exerting CC, untapping all but CC for 6th combat, but then back to energy deficit, 6+/- short depending on what you started with.

Don't forget, LR untaps itself, so it can always attack.

I might have to build a deck with this as a win condition. Maybe a UR deck to counter kill spells.

[CardAgain Sweater]

Yep, I didn't read LR close enough. Apologies. In hindsight, paying 8 energy and not untapping LR is way too high a cost.

Let us know how it works! If you are going to go UR, blue gives lots of opportunities to tap down defenders or tap lands to prevent counters/removal. Watch out for white decks with Solemnity!

[ladof]

Just did a quick dig and threw https://deckstats.net/forum/index.php/topic,30025.0.html together. Not sure I like it, really, but that might be my disdain for red showing. Let me know what you think might improve it!