do you wish mana screw wasn't a thing? i have a solution

[Xaarvaxus]

yea maybe my idea isnt so good, i mean something like this would be cool as well if you ask me. its no fun to play against a guy who cant play his deck because of RNG. yea you could add more draw and ramp to make the deck top consistent and noice. but i do still feel like a bonus like this would be cool.

I think the 'basic' idea is a decent one for casual tables and deserves some discussion.  I'm hopeful others will want to help refine it in this thread.

[robort]

If you were going to do such a thing like this especially in casual. A suggestion/idea would be to place the type of basic lands one needs off to the side. At your draw step you may instead draw one of those basic lands. However this can be only done once and can only be done by turn 3 or even 4. After that those basics are no longer playable.

That is the only idea I can come up.

[Vorne]

https://www.fowtcg.com/

Not that you can't do your own thing with magic, but that was one of the major tenets for that game is to eliminate mana screw.

[dexflux]

I can definitely find a way to abuse this.

Because I'm guaranteed my turn 3 to 5 land drops, I can reduce the land count of any of my commander decks to about 20.

This greatly increases the consistency of combo decks, and combo decks don't need to be more consistent.

Never underestimate the power of a Spike I guess. I also don't see a reason to not abuse it as much as I can.

[Morganator 2.0]

I've been thinking about this thread a lot lately. There must be some way to figure out exactly how many lands you should use to minimize the number of times you get mana screwed.

I mean, the answer to that is to just use a deck with all lands, and at that point you get mana fed, with nothing to cast.

So I'm working on a hypergeometric distribution that should give the perfect number of lands to ensure that you don't get mana screwed, or mana fed. I want to also include mana ramp, but  that might be going a step too far. Stay tuned, it should be ready in a few days.

[Soren841]

28 lands, 16-18 ramp 0-2 cost. Works until your curve is above 3. These are your magic numbers. Longer gameplan? 30 lands, 15 ramp. Etc.

[ApothecaryGeist]

So I'm working on a hypergeometric distribution that should give the perfect number of lands to ensure that you don't get mana screwed, or mana fed. I want to also include mana ramp, but  that might be going a step too far. Stay tuned, it should be ready in a few days.

I think Frank Karsten has already done this.  I don't recall the specifics, but it does only MINIMIZE mana problems.  You can still get mana locked, color locked, or mana flooded with any deck regardless of the mana base.

[burn your face]

Mana screw is part of the natural variance of the games. It can be annoying, but magic wouldn't be the the same game if variance was out of the picture.

If you hate it enough to want to change the rules, than just play a different game.

[vali0021]

i agree that mana screw is a part of the game, but the best games i have is when both players get to do their things.

[Soren841]

Then build better decks?

[Morganator 2.0]

Do you know what my favorite thing about Deckstats is? The probabilities!

Wait... crap... no... Messed that up.

Moving on, I did the calculation to figure out what the best ratio of lands to spells is, to lower the odds of getting screwed off of either. I did the calculation for both 99 card decks and 60 card decks, and found that the perfect ratio is... 50/50.

Probably... could have figured that out on my own.

The real problem with determining the perfect number of lands is that is comes down to your mana curve, and your preference. I've attached a chart that shows the probabilities for not getting mana screwed. This should help you decide how many lands you want.

The first page is for commander decks, and shows the probability of getting a hand with a certain number of lands in it. So if you want to get a 3 land hand for most of your games, use between 37 and 49 lands. Note that when I say "lands" it could also mean "mana providing permanents", assuming that you'll be able to play whatever mana ramp you draw. Note that this probability excludes mulligans.

The second page is still for commander decks, and give the probability that you'll hit your land drop in a given turn. The third page is the same thing for 60 card decks, but it assumes that you're on the play (and won't draw a card on your first turn).

[vali0021]

thx morgenator

[cwoodman]

Here's a mathematically proven best bet: 16 + (3.14 x average cmc of the deck)

Source?

https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/

[Soren841]

Lol pi.. so you're saying I need 21 lands in my EDH deck?

[RedSonGoneGreen]

We have a house rule at our edh table, we call it a pity land, if you go two turns without a land you can pity land, where at your draw step reveal the card drawn and your hand (to prove you have no land), shuffle the drawn card back into deck and fetch a basic of your choice (has to be an actual basic not a land that has two basic types like Savannah or something) . You can only do this once per game. Works pretty well for our group, the cost of revealing your hand really dissuades actually wanting too but if you have no other option it is there.