Appropriate number of lands

[Aetherium Slinky]

Morganator just said in the community building project that 34 lands is about enough. I wonder where that number comes from. Not questioning anyone's authority, just genuinely curious.

I've personally seen lots of 36-38 as a guideline (sans cEDH decks that can get away with far fewer lands) and I've seen some calculators (yes, proper geometric ones) spit out numbers around 37 without mulligans.

What kind of things would affect the numbers? Ramp, CMC curve are very obvious ones but are there other forces at play? Like mulligans, number of activated abilities, number of colours, number of double (or triple!) colour symbols in cards etc.

Opinions, facts and stats?

[WizardSpartan]

I'll leave the stats to Morg but I like 38 as a basis for commanders with a CMC >4, and 36 for commanders with a CMC <4. Honestly, adding in a couple lands more than necessary is still oftentimes ok, simply because you have a free card in the form of your commander. Like many playgroups, I play with 1 free mulligan, which means that inversely, you could cheat on a couple lands and still oftentimes be ok, also. I would say that ramp has the biggest effect here. Elf decks run loads of 1 drop dorks, so they can shave a considerable number of lands. If you are playing some expensive commander in non-green colors, then your ramp options are much worse, which means that you will be needing to hit all your land drops and will therefore be needing to add some to your landbase. I personally run low to the ground commanders and run lots of 1-2 mana rocks (signets, talismans, etc.) so my landbases pretty much start at 36 and dip down to 34 when I want to put some more cool, synergistic cards in. Obviously, if you are looking to make your mana base consistent and are looking to optimize it, then look at how many colors you are playing & the number of mana symbols in mana costs of the cards you are playing.

Just my 2 cents!

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

I have Adaptive Enchantment, that was received by my friends as a Birthday present last year, 2019, when I turned 33. It had 39 lands, it's not yet tested, I must admit, but I decided to get rid off cards with cmc >6, and circled the land base to 35. The same I did for The Ur Dragon deck, that I built scrutinizely throughout the past several years. I put 35 lands, but the last deck was built from scratch, while Adaptive Enchantment is preconstructed, however I entirely changed the lands in it and tried nonetheless to preserve the core of the deck as I received it as present. I am not the biggest EDH expert, others should be more experienced, but in those 2 EDHs I own: 35 seems enough.
Kind regards,
Chavdar

[Morganator 2.0]

We already had a topic similar to this.

https://deckstats.net/forum/index.php/topic,42932.0.html

As for the number, I based it on how many lands my green decks usually have. Because green decks can and should use lots of mana ramp, lands aren't needed as much.

[Aetherium Slinky]

We already had a topic similar to this.

Ah, sorry. You can lock this one, I simply forgot that thread existed and didn't bother to search.

[WWolfe]

I usually end up with somewhere between 34 to 37 depending on the average CMC, much like WizardSpartan said, but the average CMC of most of my decks are below the 3.5 range.

The biggest tell is play testing it a few times and seeing how often you are mana screwed and how often you are flooded. Adjust your land and ramp until you find a good balance.

cEDH decks can get away with less lands (I've seen some with as few as 28 lands) as they usually ramp very hard to end the game very quickly. Some land based decks (Omnath, Windgrace, etc.) want more like 42+ lands.

[robort]

Lol why lock it? people won't sift through a bazillion started topics trying to find the right one when they can start another topic. People shouldn't be deterred because they asked a previous question. May as well say "sorry can't help because the question was asked already and answered".

But to answer even again. My preference is 40 lands for edh, 24 for limited, and 17 for drafting. I will then adjust accordingly to variables. Starts of course with avg cmc, then how much ramp/rocks et-cetra is in the deck, how fast I can make my opponent(s) react to what I am doing. If I am making my opponents react to me instead of me reacting then I am doing something right. I like the old adage "Rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it"

[Slyvester12]

I play a lot of green and tend to prefer 32-34 lands, depending on how much and what kind of ramp I'm running. 1 cmc dorks? Fewer lands. Ramp spells and rocks? More lands.

That being said, I greatly prefer commanders with a mana sink because it eliminates the problem of flooding. Ezuri, Renegade Leader can pump the team and save my board. Scion of the Ur-Dragon can entomb my dragons and combo out. Urza, Lord High Artificer gives card advantage. My point being, I'll gladly keep a 4-5 land hand if I know I can dump the mana into my commander, while commanders like Alela, Artful Provocateur often end up with mana to spare and nothing to do.

[Aetherium Slinky]

Do you adjust for double-costs in multicolored decks? I know I did in MRB since I have one UUUU-costed card in there so I added an extra island to compensate for that. Is it just me and I am insane?

[Morganator 2.0]

I wouldn't change the number of lands, just the composition. Make sure you have lands that tap for any colour of mana, or failing that, lean towards blue mana.

[danrgames]

One thing that probably does effect the math that I didn't see anyone mention is rocks. If you run a decent number of mana-producing artifacts like the ever present sol ring, you may also be able to get away with less lands.

Personally I'm almost always on 38 lands. #of dorks/ or mana rocks varies between decks, but its usually 3 or 4, with another 3 or 4 spots devoted to some kind of mana acceleration. Usually that's ramp, but for some decks that don't have access to good ramp may include things like mana flare.