Commander Rule Change w/ M21 Announced

[WWolfe]

https://clips.twitch.tv/GeniusObliviousPeppermintFunRun

Dies and exile effects will now trigger when your commander dies or is exiled

[WizardSpartan]

To clear it up, do you mean that when your commander would die/be exiled, but is put in the command zone, abilities that trigger on death/exile would trigger?

If so, this is revolutionary. Groundbreaking. I love it. Kokusho, the Evening Star (and the rest of the cycle); Elenda, the Dusk Rose; Roalesk, Apex Hybrid; Child of Alara (not a fan of this one tbh); Tuktuk, the Explorer; and a bunch of other commanders are now potentially playable.

Also, I speculate that there will be several commanders come out of this set that enjoy leaving the battlefield in different ways, which is definitely exciting!

[ApothecaryGeist]

Yes, WizardSpartan.  That is the gist.  In the video, Toby Elliot did not elaborate as to the exact mechanism.  Most likely that the Commander WILL go to that new zone, and then go to the Command zone.  But we will see when they actually roll out the new rule.


I'm mostly neutral on this one.  Because it [the old rule] is confusing for new players.  But I suspect it is going to lead to a few more bannings.  And I personally liked that you could not do graveyard shenanigans with your commander unless you specifically chose to leave it out of the Command Zone.

[Shredwick]

So with this new rule, will we still have a choice to leave a commander in the graveyard, or (if you're completely insane) in exile?

Also, i'mma need them to ban Child as commander real quick.

[Morganator 2.0]

I'm a little lost after viewing the clip. He literally said "Commanders will now trigger "dies" effects when they go to the graveyard and will trigger exile effects when they go to exile." Wasn't that always the case? Did he mean to say when they go to the command zone?

But I suspect it is going to lead to a few more bannings.

What cards did you have in mind?

[Morale]

i didnt know that in order for something to "die" it had to actually go to the graveyard.... interesting.

[ApothecaryGeist]

What cards did you have in mind?

I'm don't have a vast knowledge of Commanders-whose-trigger-do-not-work-(at-leat-until-now) ... but the first thing that comes to mind is Child of Alara.  And back when we had a "banned as Commander" category, Kokusho was a banned commander.  And we still didn't have death triggers from the Command Zone back then either.

[ApothecaryGeist]

i didnt know that in order for something to "die" it had to actually go to the graveyard.... interesting.

Yes.  Under the current rule (until M21 releases), putting your Commander back into the Command Zone when it would otherwise be destroyed/exiled is a replacement effect that the player can opt to use.  This means that the card never goes to the graveyard.  And therefore does not trigger anything that says "whenever {this} dies".

[WWolfe]

The card that I wonder how this effects the most is Kokusho, the Evening Star. Remember it was on the Banned as Commander list back in the day under the old rule, and before that banned in the format overall, wonder if they'll end up banning it again under this rule set.

[Morganator 2.0]

Maybe you can answer this question for me: why was Kokusho ever banned? It doesn't cause sever resource imbalances and it doesn't stop other players from enjoying the game. It falls under none of the criteria for a banning except maybe "win out of nowhere" if you happen to have a large amount of mana. Kokusho really doesn't seem that strong, even if you have it in the command zone.

[WWolfe]

The logic at the time from what I recall, was that the only way to effectively neutralize his effect was to exile him, which as your commander would just return him to the command zone. Between that and it providing "game states where you could lose out of no where", that's why it was banned.

[HowlingLotus]

At the very least this rule change will reflect how I imagine a decent sized portion of people have been (incorrectly as per current rules) playing certain cards and triggers involving their commander.

Though that might change the discussion to whether people are learning format specific rules before playing, etc. Maybe this is something WOTC could look into when printing the yearly pre-cons? I just looked at the insert from one of this years pre-cons and it only mentions that you have the option to put your commander into the command zone. Doesn't outright make the case that it is a replacement effect or what that entails (aka it doesn't die, etc).

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the implications are. I've heard that the rule change now means we place our commander into the graveyard or exile first, and can then move to command zone (as opposed to moving directly to command zone). This is part of the spell or ability resolution, so no one can instant speed "yoink, that's mine now" in response. However, if a card said to destroy all creatures and put a creature killed this way into play, someone could indeed steal the commander from you as part of the resolution. I've also heard people talking about Roon and using his ability to exile a commander then stifling the trigger to perma-strand a commander in exile. I'll wait to hear a more detailed explanation of the rule change to be honest before I freak out.

[terminalgeek]

From what I understand of the rule change, yes if you blink your commander with something like Eerie Interlude someone could Stifle the second part that returns it to the battlefield, permanently stranding your commander in exile. Why they included exile in with the death trigger change is unclear and probably will lead to more irritation as people abuse that aspect with things like Roon of the Hidden Realm, Fiend Hunter, etc. 

[Morganator 2.0]

The owner of the commander can choose to not leave it in exile, and instead put it in the command zone.

[terminalgeek]

But then why was it explained on CFB that it is now riskier to leave your commander in exile if it just goes back to the command zone like before? I realize it does no good to complain about the change but a little more clarity on the exile part from the folks making the change would be useful.

Example: It used to be if I used Safe Haven or Endless Sands to exile Nikya of the Old Ways and someone blew up the land or stifled the activated ability to bring her back later, I was just out of luck and she stayed exiled. So does that change under the new rules?