Grenzo's Doomsday - Comments

[Comment Bot]

Grenzo's Doomsday

[shnook817]

Hey. Always love to see a new Grenzo list/primer. I saw your notable exclusions sections and I was wondering if you knew about the Tel-Jilad protection capabilities or had just decided they weren't worth it. You use the stylus to tuck combo pieces in response to removal and (as someone finally pointed out to me after years of me playing him) you can use it with Grenzo's ability on the stack to tuck him, dodge removal, and then have Grenzo bring himself back out using the ability on the stack and his last known power. As you said, though, in your list you don't run nearly as many value targets as I run in mine (more of a token focus with altar combos) so it might not be worth it for "just in case". I was just curious on your thoughts.

[crimsonking]

I use to run it, it's a legit inclusion.
The problem is: it does nothing unless you've already flipped a value card with Grenzo AND you're interested in repeating the trick.
As you pointed out, it make more sense in a value-focused build, mine almost always want to go for the combo.
If you're more focused on combos with tokens and Ashnod's Altar, I'd suggest Soldevi Digger or Reito Lantern because they can go infinite, Tel-Jilad Stylus doesn't.
I wasn't aware of the trick about tucking Grenzo and bringing him back with his own ability, that's neat! I think I will re-evaluate its inclusion in the list.
Thanks for reading the primer. I'm sorry to not having completed it yet, but when Conspicuous Snoop went out I had to change a lot of things and I didn't get to a stable list yet (at least, not as stable as when I started the Primer).

[shnook817]

Right on, that makes sense. I use Epitaph Golem and Cauldron of Eternity as the main digger pieces. I don't mind the 3 power on the golem because I run a few things like Krenko, Mob Boss. I just tell myself to only play Grenzo with X=1 unless I have something like a Cloak and Dagger out (free equip because Grenzo's a rogue, boosts power, gives protection). I keep meaning to find a place to put Reito Lantern in but Soldevi Digger might be better for when I'm comboing off due to the ability's mana cost (otherwise I agree that it is narrow with only hitting the top card of the yard). Maybe I'll swap out the Junktroller since it can only be done once a turn and just be fine with one less creature in the deck. Thanks for the advice. One day I might decide to fully kit my deck out as purely competitive and I'll definitely revisit this if I do. Right now it hovers at the edge and is mostly the deck I take out when other people get too spicy for my purely casual decks (or when I need to make a statement about how I feel the last game went).

[crimsonking]

I don't know your list, but I don't think a Grenzo deck is able to put enough creatures into the graveyard to make The Cauldron of Eternity easily castable.
In my opinion, Epitaph Golem is inferior to Reito Lantern. It has power 3 and if you draw it, it's 5 mana to cast. Reito Lantern can hate opponents' graveyard as well.
I don't see the advantage of Cloak and Dagger over Mad Auntie or Goblin Chieftain. It's not a creature, so if you flip it with Grenzo it's a dead card. The only upside is shroud, but in my experience people will rather kill Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. Moreover, if you're in a more casual environment, people will likely to cast a board wipe rather than a spot removal and, even if they do the latter, Grenzo is only 2 mana. It's not a big deal to re-cast him several times.

[Hiross]

Nice deck but I would add Workhorse.

[Hiross]

Murderous Rider and Ashnod's altar is a good combo as well

[crimsonking]

I used to play Workhorse indeed. I like that card.
Unfortunately, better cards have been printed since then: Dockside Extortionist and Treasonous Ogre (I said unfortunately because I don't like them, but they are better anyway).
I think Murderous Rider only makes infinite ETB with Ashnod's Altar. You still need something like Altar of the Brood to win the game.

[Hellbramm]

I dont like it, seems pretty useless.

[crimsonking]

I dont like it, seems pretty useless.

I'm sorry. Didn't update the description for a long time and many cards and combos cited in the description are no longer used.
Apart from that, the list is 60% the same as that in the cEDH Decklist Database (i.e. it's good) and the other 40% are cards that, while they may prevent this list from being fully competitive, I've been using for years and they definitely fit in.
Of course, you may disagree with some individual choice, but you should at least justify your opinion or else it will remains what it is: just your opinion. And nobody cares.