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Author Topic: Need help with Commander build  (Read 646 times)

Bobby’s Budget Builds

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Need help with Commander build
« on: June 27, 2022, 05:09:27 pm »
I am trying to figure out if it is good as is or do we need to modify it?

https://deckstats.net/decks/196163/2610851-rograkh-and-keleth?lng=en

Fuzzy2Wasy

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Re: Need help with Commander build
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2022, 07:29:03 pm »
Not intending this to come across harshly at all, but since you are asking for help, I'm going to give it a shot and ask some questions intended as direct / to understand what you need help with. 

1st of all, IMHO, "Is it good?" is a VERY open ended question.  Do you enjoy playing it?  Does it compete well / have a good win rate in your playgroup?  Is it within the budget range you are targeting?  Is it competitive to the point you could take it to any LGS around you and have fun and have a chance to win?  What is "good" to you and "good" to someone else may be very different things. 

My biggest question I would answer your question is, WHAT exactly are you intending this deck to do?  It looks like you are trying to keep the deck under $100, and that is something I completely respect.  Due to that restriction, the deck in the most general terms isn't going to be "good" as-in competitive or high power level.   That being said, you can still make a very functional deck that you love to play within that budget.  I am also going to assume you are fairly new to the Commander format, as your deck has a pretty obvious mistake in it that experienced Commander/EDH players would know right away.  There is no sideboard in EDH.  You are not allowed to go "outside the game" to get any card.  All you have is your Commander(s) and the Library. 

I made a Rograkh/Keleth deck back when Commander Legends came out and I freaking loved it.  https://deckstats.net/decks/161626/2090598-rograkh-and-keleth-partners.  It started out fairly budget (around $150-$200 probably) and I would generally be able to have a good shot at winning, or at the very least be a very big threat to the other players in my group on very early turns.  This is probably the biggest advantage of this deck, how quick it can get set up and go and cause a threat to you opponents.  The downside of a deck that is mostly based on Commander Damage, commonly known as Voltron-style deck, is that generally in your 4 player pod you have to choose a single opponent to focus on.  The two opponents that you aren't currently focusing on are going to love this, because they are able to build their board and hold their removal items for when you turn your attention to them, and you are the one spending your resources and effort to eliminate one of their opponents for them.  In order to keep your commander/threat on the board, you need a lot of really good protection and that tends to cost $$.

So, on to specific thoughts and questions about your deck list.

1. Good Stuff:  I love Curse of Stalked Prey, not a card I've seen before but I think it is darn near perfect for a deck like this.  Low mana value so you can get down and get some +1 counters on Rograkh early and it can also be played on a player you aren't thinking about focusing on first that way, hopefully, 2 of your opponents are being threatened instead of just 1.  Curse of Opulence is another great idea to get an additional oppenent being threatened and a nice way to generate some quick mana, it is a little pricey at $8 though.  Cathar's Crusade is a great card that lets your weenie army get real threatening real quick.  This is generally paired with more of a token strategy however, opposed to hard-casting creatures.  something like Raise the Alarm which gets two ETB triggers for 2 mana, opposed to casting 1 creature for 2+ mana, is exponentially more valuable in a strategy like this.  There are TONS of White and Red cards that create multiple creature tokens for low (1-3) mana costs.  For slightly more mana, White Sun's Zenith is a chance at a repeatable ability as it gets shuffled back into your library after cast and you can get as many triggers as you can afford to pay.  Another thing I really like in your deck is the low mana cost Instants and Sorceries that add +1 counters to your creatures.  Luminous Broodmoth is another great card, I would love to get a few of those for my decks, anytime I see them I always think they are going to perform well. 

2. The curious stuff:  I'm really scratching my head about what you want to do with this deck.  I see a lot of the Arcbound stuff, which can probably be a really fun deck to play.  However, this archetype seems to almost go directly against when Rograkh and Keleth do.  Arcbound lets you move +1 counters ONLY between ARTIFACT CREATURES.  Keleth ONLY lets you add +1 counters to Commander Creatures, and Rograkh nor Keleth are ARTIFACT CREATURES, so they are not valid targets for Arcbound triggers.  It seems like you have 2 things working almost against each other here.  Do you want to get a bunch of Arcbound stuff out and grow them big?  Or do you want to get Rograkh and Keleth out and start pounding on your favorite victim that day?  If the answer is Arcbound, I would probably drop Rograkh and Keleth as Partner Commanders, just make Zabaz, the Glimmerwasp your Commander, and go to town.  If you're REALLY dedicated to trying to pull off both strategies in the same deck, Liquimetal Torque would be a nice trick, you can activate it to make Rograkh and Artifact Creature until end of turn when one of your Arcbound things dies to get him the +1 counters.  IMO, what really makes an Arcbound deck go is having a way to sacrifice some of your stuff when needed.  Relying on your opponents to kill the things you need in order to get the triggers that are helpful at any given moment, is probably NOT going to happen.  So things like Ashnod's Altar are all-stars there as they let you get the triggers you want and add mana for you and can be activated at-will / during any phase of any turn. 

Where is all your Ramp, Protection, and Draw?!?  In Commander/EDH, Ramp and Draw are probably the two MOST important features of having a good playing experience.  If you are just sitting around playing 1 card per turn and top decking 1 card on your draw step, you probably aren't going to perform very well nor have much fun.  Regardless of what type of deck you are making, Ramp and Draw should always be focused on and about 15-25% of your deck should be dedicated to this. Cards like Sol Ring, Arcane Signet, your Guild Signets and Talismans (Boros Signet , Boros Talisman) are very cheap $-wise these days, and should be auto includes more-or less.  I also like things that I can play early as a resource, and then lose later when I don't need them anymore to get me more viable cards to help close out the game (Commander's Sphere , Mind Stone, etc).  I find Tome of Legends to be a great draw spell for my Rograkh & Keleth deck because you have multiple Commanders entering and attacking constantly.  Finally, in decks that really care about their Commander, especially if your goal is to win with Commander Damage, protection is everything.  You can get all the +1 counters in the world on Rograkh, but if he then gets Swords to Plowshares 'd as soon as you enter your Combat Step, it doesn't mean much.  So, Swiftfoot Boots, Darksteel Plate, Commander's Plate, Lightning Greaves, Boros Charm, Unbreakable Formation, etc are all great additions, although the better the protection the more $ it's gonna cost to pick up, all the way up to the Ultimate White Protection, Teferi's Protection which can save you from a board wipe and/or if an opponent is about to combo off and kill the whole table, you get to literally turn the tables

3. The bad stuff:  Marching Duodrone, don't ever! lol.  You are giving out to your opponents 3 treasures, and only getting 1 back, and it's a 2/2 and will probably get killed on the first or second swing.  Unless you have a way to make your opponents having treasures hurt them, or negating the treasures they get, or have a good death trigger for your creature getting blocked and killed, there is just no good reason to have this.  It actively hurts you.  Personally, I don't love Tyrite Sanctum either. It's a lot of Time, Mana, and resources (including having to Sac your land) to make 1 thing indestructible, which will then likely be exiled immediately afterwards.  I just don't really see the benefit, when there are SO many ways to give 1 (or more, or ALL) of your stuff indestructible without having to give up one of your lands.  Finally, your lack of removal or ways to influence your opponents strategies can be a big detriment to having a successful game.  If all you can do is sit back and watch your three opponents take their turns and are powerless to stop them from going off and just hoping you get another turn, it's not going to go well for you.  White and Red are two of the premier colors for interaction.  Killing your opponents Vito, Thorn of the Dusk Rose when they are about to go infinite with Exquisite Blood by shooting it with a Lightning Bolt or exiling it with a Path to Exile or Swords to Plowshares is absolutely essential.  There are SO, SO, many ways to interact with your opponents in these colors, and I would recommend you include a few for a chance to have at least 1 in your hand when it's going to be used at a crucial time. 
« Last Edit: June 27, 2022, 07:37:38 pm by Fuzzy2Wasy »

Bobby’s Budget Builds

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Re: Need help with Commander build
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2022, 07:41:55 pm »
Thanks I read modular quickly and am going to restart the whole deck with your advice. I appreciate it.

Bobby’s Budget Builds

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Re: Need help with Commander build
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2022, 08:01:24 pm »
I am going to do more but this was quick change I made, am I going towards the right path?

https://deckstats.net/decks/196163/2610851-rograkh-and-keleth/en

Fuzzy2Wasy

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Re: Need help with Commander build
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2022, 08:13:48 pm »
Ultimately, there is no right or wrong answer, whatever you enjoy playing and having fun with is great  :)

That said, it seems like you decided to stick with the Partner Commanders (who, I can attest, are a blast to play).  This version is looking a lot better than the previous build.  I can see what the appeal of Arcbound was if you missed the fact that those +1 counters could only be moved to artifact creatures.  It was a good idea, just unfortunately didn't work with the rule as written. 

First comment I'll make on the new build is about Panharmonicon. It's a great (and fairly $$ too) card, but be mindful of how many valid targets it really has, its certainly not "for" every deck.  It seems like your current build does not have very many valid targets to trigger the PanHarm.  It only cares about creatures and artifacts that have an effect when they enter.  It's something you could focus the deck more towards, or just keep your PanHarm for a different deck that will make more use of it.

Bobby’s Budget Builds

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Re: Need help with Commander build
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2022, 08:25:13 pm »
I added a bunch of cards I think would go with the idea of adding counters to all my creatures. But there were way more then expected so I put most in the maybeboard. I am trying to build this deck online and talk to others to see if it will synergize before purchasing.