Deckstats Forum
English-language Forums => General Magic => Topic started by: EBWonder on February 13, 2016, 10:15:21 pm
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I'm not trying to be a complainer, but I've seen a number of decks that claim they are "colorless," but they use one or more of the following:
1) Simian Spirit guide (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Simian+Spirit+Guide)
2) Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth)
3) The alternte casting cost from new phyrexia (Pay 2 life or 1 mana) (This is the phyrexian mana symbol)
Do you consider decks that do this colorless?
Personally, I say no. Non-colored artifact decks that used non-artifact basic lands I can see as colorless, but to splash something because you can use an alternative method to cast it seems wrong. I realize I am in the minority, especially since so many pro-tour players do it. any thoughts?
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No I agree with you. Having multiple methods for gaining mana and playing cards is good strategy but I would hardly consider it colorless. For example; an eldrazi deck that uses only waste and colorless mana producing non-basic lands would be considered "colorless" or if the deck focused on playing artifacts that have no colored devotion to play them. If you have to use a color to play a card then the deck ceases to be colorless, that's just my opinion.
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I agree with both of the previous posts. I'll go a step further and add that using the Phyrexian symbol cards where you can pay life rather than mana still put color into the deck IMO. Just because you're paying an alternate casting cost doesn't devoid the card of color.
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Out of curiosity (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Curiosity), how about the new cards with Devoid? They are technically colorless, but obviously required colored mana.
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That's a tricky topic that you're bringing up. Let me try and put it this way; Artifacts and some eldrazi are colorless and require NO colored mana to play and the decks built for them can use colorless mana sources. Even some of the eldrazi that are devoid you'd still have a colored deck due to some of their support spells requiring colors. If you wanted a colorless eldrazi deck you'd need to have devoid creatures, colorless spells (such as witness the end (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Witness+the+End)) and use lands such as unknown shores (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Unknown+Shores) or corrupted crossroads (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Corrupted+Crossroads) that are initially colorless then I can see it as a "No-Color" deck.
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I guess i look at it from a commander point of view if i look if something is colorless. If they use basic lands and they have the mana symbles/pay 2 life then is can't be considered a colorless deck. i know that seems wrong but that it makes the most sense to me.
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colorless is no colored mana symbols , hence devoid makes it colorless as its being cast, not before. Again a colored symbol is not colorless
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These days they are always doing things like Jeski Black. Splashing an additional color has not been changing the name much. Maybe it should be called Colorless Black.
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I understand what you mean. Off topic subject, some decks I haven't seen yet are Temur White, Mardu Blue, Abzan Red or Jeskai Green. I hear 4-5 color decks are starting to emerge more on the tournament scene but you don't hear much from the nephilim players.
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I understand what you mean. Off topic subject, some decks I haven't seen yet are Temur White, Mardu Blue, Abzan Red or Jeskai Green. I hear 4-5 color decks are starting to emerge more on the tournament scene but you don't hear much from the nephilim players.
Agreed but those are because of the fetch lands. In standard, next rotation they are gone (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gone). Right now
in modern the fetch lands can't keep up with the colorless and Eldrazi.
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I see, but I thought cards like those would be great for landfall triggers? Can you imagine using a deck full of fetch lands with the various retreat to kazandu (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Retreat+to+Kazandu) or retreat to valakut (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Retreat+to+Valakut) on the field? It would be crazy!
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I see, but I thought cards like those would be great for landfall triggers? Can you imagine using a deck full of fetch lands with the various retreat to kazandu (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Retreat+to+Kazandu) or retreat to valakut (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Retreat+to+Valakut) on the field? It would be crazy!
They can be used like that. Another reason, say you are running a WG/R deck. You play wooded foothills (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wooded+Foothills) wich we know gets you a forest (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forest) or a mountain (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mountain). Now what if you need a plains (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Plains)? You can fetch canopy vista (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Canopy+Vista) with wooded foothills (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wooded+Foothills) giving you the plains (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Plains) you need.
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So you're getting a Tarkir dual land ready to use, nice. I mostly like to use the evolving wilds (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Evolving+Wilds) and retreat to emeria (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Retreat+to+Emeria) in a lot of my ally decks. Popping out Kor tokens does explosive stuff for ally triggers. So back to subject........
Colorless decks are only colorless if none of the creatures or spells have colored mana symbols (but if the card is devoid then its ok).
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Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth) makes all lands swamps in addition to their mana type.
They then use the black mana to cast a devoid spell. so despite it using black mana, the deck is colorless?
what if they use the mana for a triggered ability? does it still make it colorless?
For example, Ivan Floch top 8 "colorless eldrazi" deck (taken from the wizards website)
Creatures
4 Eldrazi Mimic (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eldrazi+Mimic)
4 Endless One (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Endless+One)
4 Matter Reshaper (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Matter+Reshaper)
4 Reality Smasher (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Reality+Smasher)
4 Simian Spirit Guide (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Simian+Spirit+Guide)
2 Spellskite (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Spellskite)
4 Thought-Knot Seer (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Thought-Knot+Seer)
Instants
4 Dismember (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dismember)
Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Chalice+of+the+Void)
2 Ratchet Bomb (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ratchet+Bomb)
Lands
4 Blinkmoth Nexus (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Blinkmoth+Nexus)
4 Eldrazi Temple (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eldrazi+Temple)
4 Eye of Ugin (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Eye+of+Ugin)
4 Ghost Quarter (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ghost+Quarter)
3 Mutavault (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Mutavault)
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Urborg%2C+Tomb+of+Yawgmoth)
2 Wastes (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Wastes)
Sideboard
1 Spellskite (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Spellskite)
1 Ratchet Bomb (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Ratchet+Bomb)
3 Oblivion Sower (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Oblivion+Sower)
3 Gut Shot (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Gut+Shot)
2 Pithing Needle (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Pithing+Needle)
4 Relic of Progenitus (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Relic+of+Progenitus)
1 Warping Wail (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Warping+Wail)
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This deck is almost completely colorless, but the red and black cards are throwing it off. I think the reason people consider it colorless is because that's what the majority of the deck looks like.
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That deck is colorless in retrospect. Nothing has to be cast for a color or abilities to be used. Exile (http://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Exile) for red mana and use it to produce 1 colorless mana. Then pay life instead of using color. The only time for color to be paid if he has to. Down to 2 life left and he'd have to pay the color. Until that type of scenario comes up, everything is colorless.