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Commander Discussion / Re: Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.

« am: April 06, 2024, 09:49:23 Vormittag »

This thread is totally off the rails.

"Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their downfall."  The Silmarillion

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Commander Discussion / Re: Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.

« am: April 02, 2024, 08:30:36 Vormittag »

I took it out of my decks with commanders less than 6 cmc and not my top power level decks and I'll never go back. Games are way more fun not having it.

Agree with this. Some commanders do need the boost if they want to come down early enough to be relevant, especially those released before they were designing with this format in mind.

FWIW, I recently built an Ovika deck where I've chosen 11 rocks from 2-4 cost that smooth out the 7 cmc cast and bring utility.  Additionally, it's worth considering inclusions such as Solemn Simulacrum, Big Score, Charming Scoundrel, Irencrag Feat or even Ojer Pakpatiq dying and leaving a land are ramp curving out behind a 7 cmc target.  So far, Ovika has reliably dropped ahead of schedule.

(https://deckstats.net/decks/160835/2927215-ovika-ramp-v0-6)

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Commander Discussion / Re: Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.

« am: April 02, 2024, 08:28:40 Vormittag »

Sol Ring is so busted that IMO pretty much the only reason not to play it is because you’re deliberately handicapping your deck to be at a certain strength, same as (budget notwithstanding) the likes of Mana Crypt. Well, that and personal preference, but that’s entirely subjective.

Apparent threat is a valid concern. If you drop Sol Ring t1 you kinda become the archenemy. But, the same could be said about any cards. Vanilla 2/2s are less scary than actually good cards, but you aren’t more likely to win the game with them - they’re less scary for a reason. We still have to do stuff that threatens wins if we want to win. Actually, the irrationality around Sol Ring means that it’s probably one of the least scary cards relative to the advantage it actually gives you. People see a Mana Crypt and they flip out; they see a Sol Ring and they’re like, ah, a classic EDH card! (It’s perhaps why I’ve never been in a game that purportedly banned fast mana that actually banned Sol Ring)

Versatility is a fair point, but Sol Ring is so powerful that I doubt very much that one of those cool rocks is actually better. I’ll often swap some 2-mana rock for one of those, or add one as well as my regular ramp, but none of them let me play Smothering Tithe on turn 2.

Theme and identity are valid… except that this is EDH, we’re not not playing ramp. So, why not play the best ramp? If you’ve cut all signets and talismans too then maybe that’s another matter but such decks are rarely viable at anything other than quite low power levels.

For the record, if I were the king of Magic I would 100% ban Sol Ring (and probably a lot of other cards besides….) and I certainly don’t think there’s anything wrong with removing it, but I think most of the arguments boil down to houserules or personal preference; it’s not mechanically stronger not to run it in almost(?) all situations.

Hey, thanks for your detailed consideration.  No doubt, Sol Ring 'does the thing' (ie ramp, specifically) better, especially early game, yet that's also the crux isn't it?  In the end you can only ask yourself if you feel you need the Ring^TM or if you would prefer seeing something else come up instead.

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Commander Discussion / Re: Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.

« am: April 01, 2024, 11:10:21 Vormittag »

I already don't play Sol Ring and never will.  I don't need it, and if I did there's the way more fair Sol Talisman.

I'd still go for a good utility 3 drop rock, but Sol Talisman is nice in Prosper for the free treasure when it finally resolves.  I believe if were suspend 2, it would get more love.

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Commander Discussion / Re: Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.

« am: April 01, 2024, 11:06:49 Vormittag »

Hey, that's cool others have come to a similar conclusion (or close to it!).  Another bonus is I now have 20 copies of it I can trade in toward MH3.

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Commander Discussion / Taking Sol Ring out of my commander decks - a reasoning.

« am: März 31, 2024, 10:34:46 Nachmittag »

Hello folks,

I'll start by saying I don't play cEDH, so this is an argument for all decks I run, which cap out around power level 8.  As a player, I like strong themes and tight efficiency, but most importantly I enjoy a game that has variety, swings and surprises.  Winning is great and fun, but not at all costs and to that end, I've always felt Sol Ring was a necessary evil, obviously busted but so ubiquitous that it's become a standard game piece in the format.  I'd thought of taking it out simply on moral grounds, but I'd just put myself at a slight disadvantage and nobody cares, so for years I've just accepted it as part of the game, feeling slightly sheepish when I was lucky enough to get it in my opening hand.  Yet, over time I think things have changed enough that I've been able to reason Sol Ring out of my decks - not just because I wanted to, but because it actually makes sense to do so for me now.

The positives for including Sol Ring are obvious, but from the casual commander perspective, over time I've found enough positive reasons to take it out:

1. Threat level & Utility.  When I need it most in the early game, playing Sol Ring puts my game plan on blast.  Later in the game when looking for answers and win-cons, Sol Ring doesn't offer much.

2. Versatility.  There are many versatile 3-cost rocks available these days (Cursed Mirror, Machine God's Effigy, Eye of Ojer Taq, Glittering Stockpile, Misleading Signpost, etc) that ramp innocuously early game and offer value at any stage in the game thereafter.  For the casual game, I find these all better than Sol Ring.

3. Theme/Fun.  I often anguish over which cards make the final cut in my decks.  In light of the above, cutting Sol Ring suddenly seemed like a great idea instead of cutting something I wanted to play, but lacked for a slot.  Getting that last card in sometimes feels like the cherry on top.   

4. Personal Identity.  It's not just Sol Ring here, there are a lot of cards that could fit into almost any deck that shares a color with it.  Personally, I'd only consider 'good stuff' pieces if they fit the theme I'm building. 

5. Philosophy.  In the end, is it really important to have more wins than your friends?  I think not.  It's the comradery, the gathering.  If I can pull off a win in style and get some laughs from the table, I'll cherish the memory.  Maybe your group is totally down for degenerate MTG, but if it isn't, then what does Sol Ring really adding?

That's my piece.  I'm 100% sure many will not see it the same, but I'm comfortable with that.  I wouldn't expect anyone else to pull it out, but I will focus them when they drop it turn one

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Commander Discussion / Re: Pip-Boy 3000.... is likely going to become a staple like Arcane Signet

« am: März 02, 2024, 06:28:39 Nachmittag »

It's a good point in general though.  I remember playing Half Life deathmatch with mods years ago and seeing Santa Claus beat Ronald McDonald to death with a crowbar.  I was in for it then.  UB is a harder pill for me to swallow though, being mechanically unique.  Magic has always been ridiculous (eg a squirrel equipped with a sword defeating a zombie), but at least there was some manner of consistency in the flavor.  I hope WotC come out with a reskin slot in a future UB masters set or something for those who prefer to keep it 'in universe'.

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Commander Discussion / Re: Thoughts on Phyrexia AWB1, Toxic & commander

« am: Februar 01, 2023, 08:43:30 Vormittag »

Interesting mix of replies, thanks!  Underpowered to archenemy.  I guess my overall take is, the proclivity to break it in commander makes it unfun to play against, yet Toxic within the confines of standard seems like a potentially fun alternative line of play.  Perhaps some mechanics are simply better suited to a curated environment like standard.  I think I'll draft it and see how it goes.

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Commander Discussion / Thoughts on Phyrexia AWB1, Toxic & commander

« am: Januar 28, 2023, 06:42:33 Nachmittag »

Replacing 40 life in commander with 10 'points' is by default twice a powerful as designed (for standard).  This circumvents the point of commander as a longer format with more time for folks to play splashier cards, leading Infect to be met with disdain in most pods. 

The Toxic mechanic, contained within the confines of standard seems like a decent attempt to rework Infect, but in commander, it unfortunately encounters the same '10 points' problem.  To me, this seems a wasted opportunity (and a lot of new cards I don't need as a result).

What if poison was reworded to reach half of the starting life total, instead of just 10 points? (ie 10 points for standard, 20 points for commander).  Any better then?  What do you think?

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General Magic / Re: The Fear of Missing Out

« am: Februar 24, 2022, 06:13:01 Nachmittag »

Great topic!  Bit of a devil's advocate view here.  Firstly, I'll acknowledge that Wizards does a great job at fomenting FOMO and it feels good to acquire, so I accept a certain budget as guilt-free, but getting the most I can from that requires setting personal goals and having discipline so I don't just spend because something is there.   Making wise choices turns looking at a purchase into a trophy instead of an object of remorse.  It's not always easy, WotC know us well, because for the most part, they are us, but also Hasbro will dump so much in front of us.  I believe many of us have grown savvy over the years in recognizing value and spending accordingly (MH2 vs Double Feature anyone?) but holding your line comes down to having goals, knowing when to spend, when to save and honoring that.

For me, I started buying boxes in the Urza's block when I had little disposable income to do so and often felt like I had mis-prioritized my spending.  I sold a lot (but luckily not all) of my cards to wash away some guilt and stepped away, but more than 20 years later, in 2020, rediscovered the hobby with my sons and wanted to share it with them. With the value of some of my older cards now apparent, I looked at MTG in a new light. 

Firstly, I realized that MTG had become a playable investment, but not all of it investible.  The cards I did save inspired me to think of it this way as a means to justify adding to it - wisely this time.  I've learned new card value tanks after release of each new set, but older cards that are made more relevant by those cards may spike, especially if they are scarce.  The few staples to emerge from a new set will hold and rise, but with no more reserved list, they WILL be reprinted and WILL drop in value.  Thus, I fill a cart with new singles the week of a set release with everything I think we might use that's under $2 to accent our card library while the risk is lowest, skipping the Bosieju's and Meathook Massacre's as we are not competitive players (who is these days?).  Those can be had eventually once out of standard, reprinted and low-priced. 

Then, any money I might have spent on an over-priced new single, I'll spend on a reserved list card I want on a dip, out of the limelight. $50 on a Helm of Obedience right now for example vs a Bosieju while I can.   MTG FOMO for me thus comes with the spikes and dips of the reserved list.  If I overspend now (especially on new cards), I might miss a better opportunity to buy something more investible later, but then if I don't buy - maybe that WAS the opportunity.  Also, if a sealed set goes low enough, I sometimes add a sealed box to the shelf as well.

So, I'm still spending and still subject to FOMO, but I feel like I am avoiding consumer pitfalls and building an appreciating asset my sons will inherit long after the years we've spent playing it are gone.   I have a plan for this accepted expenditure now, I stick to it and I can look at our collection with pride instead of remorse.

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General Magic / Re: Interaction Question: Rod of Absorption and Adventure mechanic

« am: August 04, 2021, 12:41:28 Vormittag »

Thought I'd update that I located the 'ask a judge' site and learned that roa's ability won't resolve unless the spell it's trying to exile is destined for the graveyard.

Cheers!

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General Magic / Interaction Question: Rod of Absorption and Adventure mechanic

« am: August 03, 2021, 09:28:49 Nachmittag »

Hello Fellows,

I was wondering if anyone could explain how the Rod of Absorption (roa) would interact with the Adventure mechanic?

1) Roa says "exile it instead of putting it into a graveyard as it resolves."  Is this a replacement effect strictly intended for spells going to the graveyard as part of their resolution?  What if, like in the case of adventure, the spell exiles itself as it resolves?  Roa can't see it when it tries to resolve?

2) Once adventure is off the stack, it resorts to being a creature.  So, assuming roa could or did absorb an adventure spell, roa rulings specify that alternative casting costs cannot be used (but additional can), thus any adventure cast from roa would be as a creature? (note: the rules of adventure muddy this a bit "716.3d Instead of putting a spell that was cast as an Adventure into its owner’s graveyard as it resolves, its controller exiles it. For as long as that card remains exiled, that player may cast it. It can’t be cast as an Adventure this way, although other effects that allow a player to cast it may allow a player to cast it as an Adventure.", but I've presumed that roa's own rules about not casting via alternative costs overrides this.)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts


Kelly

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Commander Discussion / Re: To Fetch land or not.

« am: Juni 25, 2021, 07:04:39 Nachmittag »

I should also mention that some people think that fetchlands can also help "thin your deck": whereas this may be true in 60-cards formats, the effect is completely negligible in EDH (just try to do some calculation and you'll see for yourself).

I have done the math behind this and it's true, they really don't do anything for deck thinning.

Generally true, but in a Muldrotha deck for instance, replaying fetches to pull out lands adds up, as well as providing a recurring sac trigger.  To the OP, bottomline, fetches are expensive for good reasons, but only put them in for those good reasons    

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General Magic / Re: Card prices and what on earth is happening

« am: April 11, 2021, 07:42:16 Nachmittag »

Along with the sound logic presented above, people are starting to see the end of the readily available supply of reserved list cards - even the bottom of the pile is soaring into the dollars from cents.  It's a feedback loop, the less there are, the more people feel the FOMO and buy in.  Don't let price memory blind you from missing out on cards you may have wanted.  Unless society collapses (87% kidding) the floor is solid, but there is no roof.