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English-language Forums => Commander Discussion => Topic started by: Red_Wyrm on March 17, 2019, 11:18:51 pm

Title: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 17, 2019, 11:18:51 pm
Hello.

First off I will say I've looked at the intro to CEDH thread, and read it in its entirety.

There are a lot of combos that win the game instantly and it seems CEDH is a race to get one of these combos off. My question is what exactly is a CEDH player doing when they are "brewing" with a new card like prime speaker vannifar (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Prime+Speaker+Vannifar)?

When I build my decks, I think of what I want to do. I want to amass an army of goblins and kill my opponents quickly. So I put a lot of cards that help do that in the deck. I learned later that I had an infinite combo in the deck that won the game on the spot. I had skirk prospector (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Skirk+Prospector), krenko, mob boss (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Krenko%2C+Mob+Boss), aggravated assault (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Aggravated+Assault), and impact tremors (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Impact+Tremors) out, along with a few tokens. I was able to sac the tokens to make enough mana to activate aggravated assault (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Aggravated+Assault), which untapped krenko for infinite activations and infinite etb effects on impact tremor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Tremor).

I discovered this completely on accident. So say I want to brew with prime speaker vannifar (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Prime+Speaker+Vannifar). Aside from looking up broken ways to combo out on turn 3 or 4 with him(her?) Can someone explain how a CEDH player found out how to exploit the prime speaker. And then what process do you use to build your deck once you have the combo pieces?
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 17, 2019, 11:48:14 pm
Well first let's assume every cEDH player has  fairly large amount of card knowledge from just playing and brewing for so long. We basically already know that we need untappers to break Vannifar, and we know what most of them are (had to search for a few) because of decks like Selvala and Marwyn, and because KikiPod is somewhat played.

So that leaves the wincon. Basically it's split between Hulk and Deadeye shenanigans in the community rn. Everyone just automatically knows what Hulk is, he's the bogeyman basically. So, she's in the colors for Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash) Hulk and she is a sac outlet for Hulk that also grabs protection in Archetype of Endurance (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Archetype+of+Endurance). We can see all of this already just with what we know, so obviously it didn't take long to build the first drafts. The Deadeye lines are a bit less played and I'm not sure who made the line to put it into Vannifar, but basically you look for ways to abuse her ability that ends (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Ends) in some relatively compact combo. The card search on here makes it easy because I can search an effect that I'm looking for and see what cards do that.

Sorry if I rambled, I suck at writing stuff.. feel free to have me clarify any points lol
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 03:52:27 am
Yay, I'm really glad you read the intro thread!

Half the deck is usually routine stuff. Make your land base, add in mana ramp, card draw, tutors, interaction, and the deck is over half done.

Basically when a new commander comes out, you need to look at what they do and think "How do I break this card?" Recently (same set as Prime Speaker Vannifar (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Prime+Speaker+Vannifar)) I had to do this with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Lavinia%2C+Azorius+Renegade). I noticed two important things with her.

So I (and many others) brewed Lavinia with land destruction, and cards that forced people to cast stuff for free (Knowledge Pool (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Knowledge+Pool)). This way, Lavinia works by hard-locking or soft-locking my opponents, long enough for me to set up my combo (I used Approach of the Second Sun (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Approach+of+the+Second+Sun)).
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 18, 2019, 06:05:29 am
Quote from: Soren841 on March 17, 2019, 11:48:14 pm
Well first let's assume every cEDH player has  fairly large amount of card knowledge from just playing and brewing for so long. We basically already know that we need untappers to break Vannifar, and we know what most of them are (had to search for a few) because of decks like Selvala and Marwyn, and because KikiPod is somewhat played.

So that leaves the wincon. Basically it's split between Hulk and Deadeye shenanigans in the community rn. Everyone just automatically knows what Hulk is, he's the bogeyman basically. So, she's in the colors for Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash) Hulk and she is a sac outlet for Hulk that also grabs protection in Archetype of Endurance (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Archetype+of+Endurance). We can see all of this already just with what we know, so obviously it didn't take long to build the first drafts. The Deadeye lines are a bit less played and I'm not sure who made the line to put it into Vannifar, but basically you look for ways to abuse her ability that ends (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Ends) in some relatively compact combo. The card search on here makes it easy because I can search an effect that I'm looking for and see what cards do that.

Sorry if I rambled, I suck at writing stuff.. feel free to have me clarify any points lol


So I'm going to try and break the thought process down like you described. Let me know of any advice you have.


So the prime speaker let's us tutor for a creature into play if we sac a creature and tap vannifar. The best way to go up the chain is to start with an x (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=X) drop. Search for an x (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=X)+1 drop that can untap vannifar, which will ultimately let us search for an x (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=X)+2 drop which will hopefully lead to an x (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=X)+3,x (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=X)+4... etc drop until we find our win con. Note we need the win con to be a creature so we can get it with vannifar. I cant think of a win con without specifically searching for vannifar win con. But hopefully I'll get there eventually. My card knowledge is very limited. Started playing in original innistrad. Never heard of eldrazi before bfz.

What are other commanders cedh players are brewing with to make work, but haven't quite become cedh yet?

Morgantor, the intro thread was great. You should be proud. Also. Eye of the storm (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Eye+of+the+Storm) for lavania?
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 18, 2019, 06:12:44 am
I feel it is important to mention this.

I noticed prime speaker vannifar (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Prime+Speaker+Vannifar) grabs combo pieces. The problem that I cant find a solution to is that it can only grab one combo piece of you search for a creatures that untap a target on etb (untappong vannifar) until you can chain into your one combo piece. Then, at the end of the chain, you'll have a tapped vannifar and half a combo out. Youd need another way to untap her to get the train going to find the other combo piece on the same turn, as well as another line of on curve untappers. With all this setup, I dont understand how it is competitive.


Thanks guys. I hope that made sense. It did in my head. But my head has let me down in the recent past. Stupid physics midterm.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Judaspriester on March 18, 2019, 10:22:29 am
Hmm.. as far as I get your posst, you lack in card knowledge and it sounds like you haven't got much EDH experience either. So I don't really get, why do you want to start on a competetive level?

Don't get me wrong, if you want to play on that level its fine, but I would expect a very steep learning curve.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 11:25:29 am
This might help. Let's assume that the starting creature is Dryad Arbor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dryad+Arbor). You'll notice that you don't necessarily need to start with a zero mana creature.

Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator) line

A lot of these cards already see play in certain decks, so just be memory, the brewer can figure out a path for the combo. As you play more decks and build more, eventually you will also be able to think up of cards for your combo. For something like Vannifar, you can also just search up creatures that untap another creature when they enter.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: WizardSpartan on March 18, 2019, 02:34:33 pm
Quote from: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 11:25:29 am
This might help. Let's assume that the starting creature is Dryad Arbor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dryad+Arbor). You'll notice that you don't necessarily need to start with a zero mana creature.

Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator) line
  • Sacrifice Dryad Arbor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dryad+Arbor) to get Quirion Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Quirion+Ranger). Return a forest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Forest) to untap Vannifar.
  • Sacrifice Quirion Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Quirion+Ranger) to get Scryb Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scryb+Ranger). Return a forest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Forest) to untap Vannifar.
  • Sacrifice Scryb Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scryb+Ranger) to get Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage). Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage) searches for Thousand-Year Elixir (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thousand-Year+Elixir). Play the elixir and untap Vannifar
  • Sacrifice Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage) to get Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher). Use Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) to untap Vannifar, thanks to the Thousand-Year Elixir (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thousand-Year+Elixir).
  • Sacrifice Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) for Peregrine Drake (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Peregrine+Drake). Untap 5 lands. Unearth (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Unearth) the Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) so it can untap Vannifar.
  • Sacrifice Peregrine Drake (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Peregrine+Drake) to get Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator). Pair it with Vannifar, and then pay 2 mana to flicker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flicker) Vannifar, and don't re-pair.
  • Sacrifice Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) to get Body Double (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Body+Double). Body Double (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Body+Double) enters as a copy of Peregrine Drake (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Peregrine+Drake). Pair it with Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator). Generate infinite mana by continuously untapping lands.
  • Flicker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flicker) Body Double (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Body+Double) and have it enter as a copy of Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage). Search for Staff of Domination (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Staff+of+Domination). With infinite mana and infinite draw, you kinda just win.

A lot of these cards already see play in certain decks, so just be memory, the brewer can figure out a path for the combo. As you play more decks and build more, eventually you will also be able to think up of cards for your combo. For something like Vannifar, you can also just search up creatures that untap another creature when they enter.

This makes me want to play Vannifar. How would the Protean Hulk (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Protean+Hulk) combo work? I, too, am inexperienced in the ways of the cEDH community, and I don't know many combos outside of various infinite mana combos + Walking Ballista (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Walking+Ballista), etc. I know of all those untappers because I play Marwyn for fun, but I usually win through a truckload of elves + Craterhoof Behemoth (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Craterhoof+Behemoth) and other mass buffs (I don't play in a competitve group)
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 02:46:25 pm
Simic Ezuri, Sage of Hours (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sage+of+Hours), and 4 0 drops is infinite turns
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 05:08:13 pm
Quote from: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 02:46:25 pm
Simic Ezuri, Sage of Hours (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sage+of+Hours), and 4 0 drops is infinite turns

Here, I'll give the non-abridged version.

When blue is added to the mix, Protean Hulk (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Protean+Hulk) combo becomes Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash) Hulk combo. You cast Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash), revealing Protean Hulk (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Protean+Hulk), and then don't pay the two mana to keep it alive (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Alive). The deck is fast because you include cards like Summoner's Pact (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Summoner%27s+Pact), Mystical Tutor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mystical+Tutor), and Worldly Tutor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Worldly+Tutor), to improve your odds (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Odds) of getting both Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash) and Protean Hulk (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Protean+Hulk) in your hand.

Vannifar adds a few other things. Firstly is that you can search up Spellseeker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Spellseeker) to get you Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash). Second, the combo changes slightly.

Of course, you'll want Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash) Hulk instead, because it is generally faster and harder to stop.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 05:10:20 pm
I have concluded that Morganator is me from the future
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: WWolfe on March 18, 2019, 05:46:46 pm
Quote from: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 05:10:20 pm
I have concluded that Morganator is me from the future

God help us if there's two Soren's...


(kidding)
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 05:49:05 pm
See it makes sense! If he were future me, he'd be posting back in time (at the same time as me), but since it'd be difficult to affect the past, it's delayed from when MY posts are. ALSO, a lot of the time he basically says what I said but he says it better. Obviously, in the future I'll be better at communicating my thoughts into text.. what's the future like Morganator?
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 06:06:20 pm
Now to answer this question.

Quote from: Red_Wyrm on March 18, 2019, 06:05:29 am
What are other commanders cedh players are brewing with to make work, but haven't quite become cedh yet?

It seems contrary, but a lot of cEDH players are very dismissive. If a commander doesn't immediately catch (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Catch) their eye, they ignore it. This could just be because that is the attitude of the people who run the TappedOut tier list. A lot of the commanders under Tier 2 of this list are at the border; they are really high powered, but not quite competitive.
https://deckstats.net/decks/86132/1184089-cedh-tier-list/en

While a lot of these decks are strong, and are often referred to as competitive decks, they are just stopping short of being able to go toe-to-toe with the more powerful decks. I encourage anyone to brew with these commanders, and see if you can discover something that no one else has done yet. A couple highlights that I think are worth mentioning.

Muldrotha, the Gravetide (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Muldrotha%2C+the+Gravetide): These are the three strongest colors in commander (fight me!), so we know that the combo potential is there. Muldrotha is also able to recur stax pieces. Her mana cost is restrictive, but there has got to be something we've overlooked. This is the commander that I think is most likely to go up a tier if brewed properly.

Teysa Karlov (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Teysa+Karlov): She only came out recently, so maybe we just need to give her some time. So far, all the decks I've seen use her for value, but we need something that goes from "value" to "game winning".

Inalla, Archmage Ritualist (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Inalla%2C+Archmage+Ritualist): Most decks keep her in the command zone, and only bring her out if they have 4 wizards and Isochron Scepter (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Isochron+Scepter) + Dramatic Reversal (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dramatic+Reversal). The Wanderwine Prophets (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Wanderwine+Prophets) combo just isn't strong enough for cEDH. I can't rationalize it, but I have a hunch that there is another way to use her second ability.

Kruphix, God of Horizons (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Kruphix%2C+God+of+Horizons): While the last three commanders might not have been brewed enough, Kruphix is probably just waiting for some new tech to be released.

Sai, Master Thopterist (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sai%2C+Master+Thopterist): The main issue with Sai is that any brew you come up with would probably work better in Arcum Dagsson (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Arcum+Dagsson). But there might be some combo out there that was overlooked.

Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Vaevictis+Asmadi%2C+the+Dire): An excellent removal commander that suffers the same downside as Muldrotha; 6 mana is a lot for a commander that doesn't straight-up win the game (like Narset, Enlightened Master (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Narset%2C+Enlightened+Master)). I don't know why, but I just get the feeling that there is some potential here that has been ignored.

Quote from: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 05:49:05 pm
What's the future like Morganator?

Most everyone in first-world countries are cyborgs (hence Morganator 2.0). Aliens made contact, and now ignore us (something about "too creepy"). Dwayne the Rock is President, and actually doing a good job (aside from the the fact that the cabinet settles arguments with wrestling). Global warming is still a bitch. And strangely enough, the cardstock quality of Magic cards has actually gone (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Gone) down.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 06:16:42 pm
I consider High Power close enough to cEDH. It's really not, and occasionally I won't be interested in playing a pod with them, but usually they're enough to at least hang with the big boys.. I might have to revisit Sai lol, I tried him when he was spoiled. And yes, a lot of cEDH players (especially the ones like Shaper, Gigi, Sigi, etc.) go beyond close minded. It's their way or they hate you. At least I, while being argumentative and incredibly persistent, don't hate you for disagreeing
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 18, 2019, 06:45:38 pm
Quote from: Judaspriester on March 18, 2019, 10:22:29 am
Hmm.. as far as I get your posst, you lack in card knowledge and it sounds like you haven't got much EDH experience either. So I don't really get, why do you want to start on a competetive level?

Don't get me wrong, if you want to play on that level its fine, but I would expect a very steep learning curve.

Yes I am absolutely prepared to get my butt handed to me the first few weeks and months while I learn the ins and outs of CEDH. I particularly want to learn how cedh players think and find combos and apply that to my more casual play group before jumping into cedh. I don't necessarily want the full deck that would be too powerful for casual edh, but just learn how to start breaking (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Breaking) things.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: WWolfe on March 18, 2019, 06:52:24 pm
You'll probably want to make sure that your "more casual playgroup" is fine with you including some of the combos. Some really frown upon such combos.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 18, 2019, 07:32:23 pm
Quote from: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 11:25:29 am
This might help. Let's assume that the starting creature is Dryad Arbor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dryad+Arbor). You'll notice that you don't necessarily need to start with a zero mana creature.

Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator) line
  • Sacrifice Dryad Arbor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dryad+Arbor) to get Quirion Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Quirion+Ranger). Return a forest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Forest) to untap Vannifar.
  • Sacrifice Quirion Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Quirion+Ranger) to get Scryb Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scryb+Ranger). Return a forest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Forest) to untap Vannifar.
  • Sacrifice Scryb Ranger (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scryb+Ranger) to get Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage). Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage) searches for Thousand-Year Elixir (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thousand-Year+Elixir). Play the elixir and untap Vannifar
  • Sacrifice Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage) to get Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher). Use Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) to untap Vannifar, thanks to the Thousand-Year Elixir (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thousand-Year+Elixir).
  • Sacrifice Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) for Peregrine Drake (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Peregrine+Drake). Untap 5 lands. Unearth (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Unearth) the Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) so it can untap Vannifar.
  • Sacrifice Peregrine Drake (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Peregrine+Drake) to get Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator). Pair it with Vannifar, and then pay 2 mana to flicker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flicker) Vannifar, and don't re-pair.
  • Sacrifice Fatestitcher (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fatestitcher) to get Body Double (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Body+Double). Body Double (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Body+Double) enters as a copy of Peregrine Drake (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Peregrine+Drake). Pair it with Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator). Generate infinite mana by continuously untapping lands.
  • Flicker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flicker) Body Double (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Body+Double) and have it enter as a copy of Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage). Search for Staff of Domination (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Staff+of+Domination). With infinite mana and infinite draw, you kinda just win.

A lot of these cards already see play in certain decks, so just be memory, the brewer can figure out a path for the combo. As you play more decks and build more, eventually you will also be able to think up of cards for your combo. For something like Vannifar, you can also just search up creatures that untap another creature when they enter.

What happens if something like trophy mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage) ends (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Ends) up in your hand? You cant go tutor for it and put it into play. At that point would you start the chain from him, ignoring 0 1 and 2 drops?

If so, isnt there a point where a spell is too high to start from. If deadeye navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator) is in your hand, you cant go chain vannifar for it, and from my understanding 6 mana is a lot, plus the 2 to actually use him.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: WizardSpartan on March 18, 2019, 07:52:00 pm
Quote from: Red_Wyrm on March 18, 2019, 07:32:23 pm
What happens if something like trophy mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage) ends (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Ends) up in your hand? You cant go tutor for it and put it into play. At that point would you start the chain from him, ignoring 0 1 and 2 drops?

If so, isnt there a point where a spell is too high to start from. If deadeye navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator) is in your hand, you cant go chain vannifar for it, and from my understanding 6 mana is a lot, plus the 2 to actually use him.
I did some more research (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Research), so I think I can answer this.
Most of the time, you can just chain from the Trophy Mage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Trophy+Mage). Most of the earlier drops are simply untappers to transition to larger CMCs.
If you have a higher CMC creature you can't just cast, like Deadeye Navigator (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Deadeye+Navigator), and a creature with 0-2 CMC, then chain up to Spellseeker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Spellseeker), tutoring for Brainstorm (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Brainstorm), putting needed combo pieces back into your library.
Refer to this (very extensive) primer for information in terms of how to put combo pieces back in the library from other zones, if possible: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/803528-prime-speaker-vannifar-the-birthing-pod-commander
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 08:05:33 pm
This is why I prefer Hulk.. Hulk is the only piece u can't cast from hand and win with, but you would just tutor flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash) if you drew it. Also, Red, you'll probably be getting your ass handed to you for more than a few weeks  ;D just don't get discouraged and you'll get there! cEDH is incredibly complex
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 18, 2019, 08:18:26 pm
Quote from: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 08:05:33 pm
This is why I prefer Hulk.. Hulk is the only piece u can't cast from hand and win with, but you would just tutor flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Flash) if you drew it. Also, Red, you'll probably be getting your ass handed to you for more than a few weeks  ;D just don't get discouraged and you'll get there! cEDH is incredibly complex

I look forward to it!
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 09:23:37 pm
If you're looking to apply cEDH to casual, here are a couple simple (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Simple) things.


If you're looking to start a group, make sure you have enough people that actually want to do it. And remember that you don't need to start all-out. When I first started my journey into competitive commander, it was more accurate to call it high-powered commander. Our decks were well tuned, but we would have been demolished by storm decks. Of the decks that you have, I would recommend using either The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God) or Krenko, Mob Boss (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Krenko%2C+Mob+Boss). They can both generate massive amounts of tokens, so winning with combat damage is still feasible (which is how most casual decks win), but there are some good combos you can put in. If you want to get into more powerful deck building, start by powering up one of those decks.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 18, 2019, 09:27:43 pm
Also don't be afraid to proxy! cEDH is $$$$$
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 03:50:15 am
Quote from: Morganator 2.0 on March 18, 2019, 09:23:37 pm
If you're looking to apply cEDH to casual, here are a couple simple (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Simple) things.

  • Trust no one. Politics fall apart when someone is about to win.
  • Time spent thinking clearly is never time wasted. Always plan out your move before doing it.
  • Interaction: save your creature/artifact/enchantment removal for something that is hurting you a lot. If there is nothing, then save your removal for something worthwhile (see the last bullet point)
  • Stax: use stax effects in your deck that will hurt your opponents more than yourself (Winter Orb (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Winter+Orb) doesn't hurt as much if you have artifact and creature ramp).
  • Grave-hate matters (But Bojuka Bog (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Bojuka+Bog) is still bad).
  • Mental Misstep (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mental+Misstep) is an amazing card. Any 1 mana spell in commander is worth countering with Mental Misstep (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mental+Misstep).
  • Most important: threat assessment. This is something casual players are notoriously bad at. Always try to stop the person who is going to win first. Whether they are getting ready to combo, or they have an evil stax piece, always save your removal for when it will hurt them the most.

If you're looking to start a group, make sure you have enough people that actually want to do it. And remember that you don't need to start all-out. When I first started my journey into competitive commander, it was more accurate to call it high-powered commander. Our decks were well tuned, but we would have been demolished by storm decks. Of the decks that you have, I would recommend using either The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God) or Krenko, Mob Boss (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Krenko%2C+Mob+Boss). They can both generate massive amounts of tokens, so winning with combat damage is still feasible (which is how most casual decks win), but there are some good combos you can put in. If you want to get into more powerful deck building, start by powering up one of those decks.


I appreciate the bulleted list. Particularly the removal part. I've wasted return to dust (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Return+to+Dust) on signets because that was their only source of a certain color mana. But it was neither hurting me, nor helping them to a point that they were winning uncontrollably. I see this threat assessment problem in my playgroup. My friends do not see the power in doubling season (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Doubling+Season). They see the power in using plansewalker ultimates right away, but they don't see that doubling season (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Doubling+Season) is that cause, despite my best efforts to point it out. I always thought stax a way to slow the game down. I never saw a considerable advantage to running any of them because no one has fun when they're out, but  I guess cEDH isn't about fun so much as it is about winning. I'll definately look at some stax cards and try them out. See what works in certain decks and what doesn't, ignoring the groans of my opponents. While on the topic, is it worth it to waste a removal spell on a stax card if it isn't shutting you down, merely slowing you down? Assuming it isn't slowing you down enough to lose to the stax player. Most likely someone else will want to remove it.

You took a look at the decks I've made. I appreciate that. I should note that of the bajillion I have made on the website, I only own seven. My Sen triplets (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sen+Triplets) deck. Just bought Merieke Ri Beret to try as the commander. Krenko, Mob Boss (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Krenko%2C+Mob+Boss), The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God), Lord Windgrace (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Lord+Windgrace), Razaketh, the Foulblooded (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Razaketh%2C+the+Foulblooded), Maelstrom Wanderer (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Maelstrom+Wanderer) and Zedruu, the Greathearted.

I'm not quite sure how to increase the power level of Krenko without breaking (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Breaking) the bank (or with breaking (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Breaking) the bank). I've taken your advice and added more haste enablers than in the past. Perhaps I should run Pyroblast (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Pyroblast) and red elemental blast (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Red+Elemental+Blast) for hate against blue. I haven't actually gotten to play with the deck since I've added the land destruction, but I am almost certain that doesn't increase the power level. Perhaps Lightning Mauler (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Lightning+Mauler), but that really only combos with Krenko. I could also add Akroma's Memorial (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Akroma%27s+Memorial), but seven mana is a lot. Mana is never really an issue, but  I don't think adding a mana crypt (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mana+Crypt) or mana vault (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mana+Vault) would hurt anything except my wallet.

My The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God) Deck is brand (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Brand) new. I got it in the mail the other day, the cards for it. Luckily I already had a lot of the more expensive cards. Sadly I had to pay for Mind over matter (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mind+Over+Matter) and Dream Halls (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dream+Halls), and every time I've drawn them, I got better value from discarding them with a wheel effect. I haven't gotten to play him in a true EDH setting. I played against my little brother, and stomped Zedruu, but got my face handed to me by Maelstrom Wanderer (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Maelstrom+Wanderer) because he destroyed my Signet. I needed the blue mana. One card I've been reconsidering in most of my decks, including the locust god (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God) is Vedalken Orrery (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Vedalken+Orrery) because four mana for something that doesn't impact the board right away is a lot, and waiting an entire turn to make use of it seems like forever. And when I do get it out, I still seem to be doing everything on my turn at sorcery speed because The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God) encourages that with haste. No point in making 1/1 hasty flyers before my upkeep if they have haste. I can't really say too much else about the deck except I seem to not be drawing enough wheel effects to jumpstart my victory. Perhaps I should add windfall (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Windfall) and take out some counterspells as I have yet to need a counterspell (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Counterspell). I learned my deck is particularly weak to my friend's Breya deck as he could at any point in time -4/-4 my commander. I should say, though, that he got a great start, and it probably won't happen again. He ramped into a turn 3 tezzeret. The one that untaps two artifacts, and can tutor for an artifact with converted mana cost x (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=X) and put it into play. He also got thran dynamo (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thran+Dynamo) and sol ring (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Sol+Ring) out allowing for a lot of mana with tezerret. So I think he got lucky more so than Breya was just op.

I also made a deal with him to not counter his stuff if he left my commander alone. As soon as I paid one to equip swiftfoot boots (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Swiftfoot+Boots) that deal disappeared, so I see your point about politicing.

Hopefully once I have a chance to play the deck more, I can make more changes. Perhaps adding temple bell (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Temple+Bell), considering I already run fabricate (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fabricate), as a win con with Mind Over Matter (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mind+Over+Matter) and Laboratory Maniac (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Laboratory+Maniac)/Elixir of Immortality (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Elixir+of+Immortality) could be good, but I think that might be drifting too far away from the win by tokens theme you suggested. I already have Arcanis the Omnipotent (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Arcanis+the+Omnipotent) which combos the same way with Mind Over Matter (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mind+Over+Matter). On the subject of The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God), is dream halls (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Dream+Halls) good? My friend says its never a bad card, but since it affects everyone, it should only be in mono colored decks that can synergise with it the best. I think that it is more useful in a deck such as mine where you can draw a lot of cards, but don't need to cast them all to win, so casting the most powerful ones for free is the best option.

On the subject of proxies, my playgroup for whatever reason only does proxies if we own at least one copy of the card. So my one demonic tutor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Demonic+Tutor) is in like 3 decks. I've found the text box proxies on the deck tools of deckstats very nice as it isn't as intense on the printer compared to printing the art and everything. Perhaps if I can convince them to move up to more cEDH, they'll allow it as they can only keep up by buying buying mana crypt (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Mana+Crypt) or proxying it.

This was long. I appreciate you taking the time to read it.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 03:59:18 am
Krenko and Locust God aren't particularly competitive commanders. Maybe try Godo Helm? It's relatively cheap and extremely straightforward.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 04:04:47 am
Quote from: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 03:59:18 am
Krenko and Locust God aren't particularly competitive commanders. Maybe try Godo Helm? It's relatively cheap and extremely straightforward.

I feel like your cheap isn't the same as my cheap, but I think you mean in comparison to other cEDH decks, hence the word relatively.

I have this strange desire to have a deck of every color combination, from each mono color to a five color deck, and I have a mono red Krenko deck, so I've shied away from Godo in the past despite him being appealing. But Godo does seem like a fairly simple (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Simple) path to cEDH. I assume you cast Godo, searching for helm of the host (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Helm+of+the+Host), and winning through infinite combats, giving him evasion through something like Whispersilk Cloak (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Whispersilk+Cloak).
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 04:10:16 am
Evasion isn't needed but yes
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 04:13:58 am
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/waiting-for-godo-cedh-primer/

Mono green budgets easier but is significantly higher level in terms of required skill and understanding
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 04:32:26 am
Quote from: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 04:13:58 am
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/waiting-for-godo-cedh-primer/

Mono green budgets easier but is significantly higher level in terms of required skill and understanding

The deck looks quite fun, and is cheap up until the ramp for the most part. I don't understand why Grim Monolith (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Grim+Monolith) is so much more expensive than Basalt Monolith (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Basalt+Monolith). I assume it has something to do with supply (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Supply) because I think Basalt Monolith (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Basalt+Monolith) has been printed a lot more, but in terms of playability, is Grim Monolith (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Grim+Monolith) better than Basalt Monolith (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Basalt+Monolith) because it costs one less to cast?
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 04:33:18 am
Grim Monolith (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Grim+Monolith) is net positive in mana, that's why. It's also Reserve List and Basalt is not.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 04:35:01 am
Also, your desire to do the chromatic challenge is great, but I would give up on mono white and boros. They're literal trash
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 05:03:33 am
Quote from: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 04:35:01 am
Also, your desire to do the chromatic challenge is great, but I would give up on mono white and boros. They're literal trash

Oh it has a name! If I ever got around to actually completing it, they would be the last two I do because I don't see any fun in either of them. Well Firesong and Sunspeaker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Firesong+and+Sunspeaker) look interesting, but I imagine if a decent deck could be built, it wouldn't be such a cheap card.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Morganator 2.0 on March 19, 2019, 12:37:55 pm
Alright, there is a lot to unpack here. I'm going to handle it one at a time.
Quote from: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 03:50:15 am
I guess cEDH isn't about fun so much as it is about winning.
It's definitely still about having fun, but everyone's goal is to win the game. You don't see someone playing Possibility Storm (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Possibility+Storm) just because it's fun; they have it because it helps them win the game.

Quote from: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 03:50:15 am
I always thought stax a way to slow the game down. I never saw a considerable advantage to running any of them because no one has fun when they're out.
You don't necessarily need stax that hurts everyone. You can instead look for pieces that will help in your playgroup. As an example, Notion Thief (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Notion+Thief) is great in many situations, because almost everyone uses wheel effects or mass draw at some point. Containment Priest (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Containment+Priest) stops creatures from being cheated into play (also stops that Vannifar we've been talking about). Scavenging Ooze (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Scavenging+Ooze) is excellent grave-hate. And Magus of the Moon (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Magus+of+the+Moon) punishes people who spent money on their land-base. You don't necessarily need stax that harms everyone, you can instead tweak your stax effects to suit your playgroup.

Quote from: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 03:50:15 am
While on the topic, is it worth it to waste a removal spell on a stax card if it isn't shutting you down, merely slowing you down? Assuming it isn't slowing you down enough to lose to the stax player. Most likely someone else will want to remove it.
You generally want to remove stax if it's stopping you from winning the game. If it's something that is hurting your opponents more than yourself, you should probably leave it. If the stax effect is slowing you down so that you can't play, then it is worth removing. What's more important is timing. You should always aim to remove stax on the End Step before it becomes your turn, that way you are the first to take advantage of the stax piece being gone (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Gone).

Quote from: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 03:59:18 am
Krenko and Locust God aren't particularly competitive commanders.
I suggested these commanders because it is better to gradually make your decks better than is it to trial-by-fire your ass straight into competitive. It's what I did, and I know a lot of people get intimidated when they go into competitive. Not necessarily you Red_Wyrm, but the other people in your playgroup.

So start with high-powered decks first. I can vouch for Krenko, because it was my first deck. The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God) and Krenko, Mob Boss (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Krenko%2C+Mob+Boss) are good because you can win with combat damage (what you're familiar with), but as the deck grows stronger, it will become more combo-centric (which is more cEDH style). Of course, as you get more into the competitive scene, you'll still be able to stand your own, but you won't be winning as often. This is kinda where my Krenko deck is at now; to strong for casual, not quite strong enough for competitive. If ever you want help upgrading those decks, let me know. I'd rather post my tips in the deck comments section than here.
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Soren841 on March 19, 2019, 12:41:27 pm
Morganator he mentioned that those were two decks he already had, I just was pointing him in a more viable direction. There's a $40 budget Godo deck so.. not tryna cut on your suggestions
Title: Re: Brewing CEDH Decks
Post by: Red_Wyrm on March 19, 2019, 06:16:02 pm
Quote from: Morganator 2.0 on March 19, 2019, 12:37:55 pm
I suggested these commanders because it is better to gradually make your decks better than is it to trial-by-fire your ass straight into competitive. It's what I did, and I know a lot of people get intimidated when they go into competitive. Not necessarily you Red_Wyrm, but the other people in your playgroup.

So start with high-powered decks first. I can vouch for Krenko, because it was my first deck. The Locust God (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=The+Locust+God) and Krenko, Mob Boss (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Krenko%2C+Mob+Boss) are good because you can win with combat damage (what you're familiar with), but as the deck grows stronger, it will become more combo-centric (which is more cEDH style). Of course, as you get more into the competitive scene, you'll still be able to stand your own, but you won't be winning as often. This is kinda where my Krenko deck is at now; to strong for casual, not quite strong enough for competitive. If ever you want help upgrading those decks, let me know. I'd rather post my tips in the deck comments section than here.

I looked at your krenko list and every other card is a haste enabler or an uptapper, or both, making the fervor (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Fervor) and thousand year elixir (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Thousand-Year+Elixir) I added seem like minimal additions to my list. When I'm not on my phone, I will definitely add more of that to krenko. Hall of the bandit lord (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?utf8=1&lng=en&card=Hall+of+the+Bandit+Lord) never caught my eye until now. I still dont see why its 20 dollars though.

Also any help on either of the decks would be great! In your spare time of course.