Deckstats Forum
English-language Forums => General Magic => Topic started by: Salohcin92 on August 27, 2018, 08:38:22 pm
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I've been having issues lately in enjoying myself at my LGS. Most of the other players I see there are the more hardcore tournament players who have their own little clique set up where everybody knows eachother and their decks, so games between them go by at a rapid pace. I tried joining them for a 6-way EDH (for my very first try at playing EDH, period), and it was pretty obvious that I wasn't part of their inner circle. I had to keep asking them to slow down and explain the cards that I didn't know and what they did, and they got pretty annoyed at me just because I didn't have every card in their deck memorized.
I don't play tournaments, I don't have the money or time to keep up with the Standard rotation, but I still feel like I deserve to be at that shop as much as the high-rollers and regulars. I want to enjoy the game, and for that I need other people, but I don't feel welcome at all no matter what shop I go to because the regulars always sniff me out as someone who doesn't belong. What can I do?
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It all comes down experience. It's that simple (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Simple)
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No, it's not that simple (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Simple). I can't get experience if the only players I encounter are going to treat me like dirt just for not being tournament-level
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Let them treat you badly, why does that stop you from playing? It's your choice to stop.
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The lgs clique is actually cancerous. I had the same experience at my lgs. I even wrote a post about it a while ago. Me and my friends had played for a year or two and wanted to give it a shot. We hated it. You’re not “one of the group” so they play different with you, they talk different, and they just look down on you for not playing one of the 3 decks that they are playing. Hated it. Never went again.
I know the common response is “oh just play enough and they’ll get to know you” but that’s a bs answer. Why is “they will treat you like crap until you go enough” acceptable? Why not just be cool to new people right from the start?
Experience is a terrible answer because you’re just forgiving the behavior. “It’s ok because when you get better, they’ll accept you” is NOT ok. People rant about “magic dying” because of *insert 50 million reasons* but the reason it’s dying at the card shops is because of this. Because people are just ok with garbage behavior. I literally stopped going to the shop for a while after th experience. A shop that I’ve donated tournament prizes to and spent huuuuuuundreds (thousand sometimes) a month at. Just because the players are so poisonous, and nobody seems to care.
But hey, it’s ok. It’s just experience *rolls eyes*
Here’s my solution: just don’t play competitive at card shops. If you just want to play, play on mtgo. It’s cheaper and you can avoid the crap that comes with those people. That’s what I do. The people will never change. It’s nice to talk about change, but it will never change. So I just don’t go anymore. I tried. Tried for a month.
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Let them treat you badly, why does that stop you from playing? It's your choice to stop.
I’m about to rant here, so bear with me.
WHY is this an ok answer? If you walked in and they called you a fag and threw soda at you every time, is it still “oh just let them treat you like crap. YOURE choosing to quit.” That is a cop-out, bull shit answer and it’s EXACTLY what he’s talking about. Why is the consensus that it’s OK to do this? Why would you ever condone that? Why is the CONCEPT of treating somebody with respect so foreign to mtg players that we willingly and in-ironically answer questions about negative experiences with “that’s just the game, deal with it.”
I expect that shit at Yu Gi Oh games. Why is the community not better than this?
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It's not a cop out. If you know nothing and seriously want to learn then suck it up buddy because there's only one way.
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It's not a cop out. If you know nothing and seriously want to learn then suck it up buddy because there's only one way.
So your logic flies directly in the face of WotC who are making products to try to encourage new people to go to LGS. And the entire library of MtG YouTube content creators who say Go to your LGS.
Your logic means that any new person, and kids, shouldn’t go to LGS. That can’t be the solution. I’d be willing to bet if we made a survey, most people would understand that your message flies in the face of the WotC message. Now, the tragedy is, YOUR message is actually the general mindset of most people I’ve seen at lgs’s. Which is why new people hate lgs’s. Or, at least, hate lgs’s frequented by people like you. I’m not bashing you, at all. I’m just saying your mindset is toxic, and hurts the image of the game.
Be better. Just be better.
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I suggest the conversation in this thread at least get civil, or you risk this thread just becoming an extension of the LGS situation.
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A lot of experience at LGS' are bad, and one in particular spoiled my son from playing when he was 14 outside of select events with me (2HG pre-releases and the occasional kitchen table EDH game).
We were playing an FNM at a newer LGS (was friends with the owner but in the lose kind of 'friend of a friend' that we hung out with occasionally at said friends), and it was the third round. My son was playing one of the more experienced players at the shop and all during the game he was berating my son. The shop owner caught onto it and handled it (I was on the opposite side of the shop playing EDH with some of the regulars) but they didn't tell me what happened until the next day when the guy wasn't at the shop. I'm usually well- composed adult, but let's just say it was a good thing that they didn't tell me that night. The owner banned the guy but the damage was done.
This one incident soured my son, who had been playing since he was 8, entirely on the game. Is that really the type of behavior that we want in our LGS?
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Thank you for all your stories and responses.
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As a very long time Magic Player, I have also seen and dealt with the MTG cliques that exist at LGSs.
I wrote an article a while back about my interaction with a player from one of those cliques earlier this year, here on deckstats forum.
This is not new. It is also not just an MTG thing. This happens everywhere in life. That is one of the reasons why changing schools for children and young teens is usually so hard. Trying to figure out where you fit in, if at all, is a trying time in life.
How about being the new person at work?
This is a life lesson everyone needs to figure out, and it rarely can be avoided. Even if you avoid it in some aspects of life, it will be there in others.
My best advice, is to hang out, and not dive right in. Watch and learn the formats they play, their style of play, see what kinds of cards they are using. Are their decks familiar from what you have seen online? Are their EDH decks crazy cut throat, or long game fun style? How do they act towards each other? How do they react to you hanging around and watching?
I, personally, would not recommend just jumping in to a multiplayer EDH match with a bunch of folks whom you don't know. The initial post for this thread shows a good example why it may not work out so well.
I would also suggest getting to know one or two of the folks who work at the store. Specifically, the ones who run the magic events, or play in them. They become a person that you now have in common with everyone else who plays at the store.
They will look at you differently if they see you having friendly magic discussions with the store folks.
If they seem inclusive, then they will ask you if you want to join in. If they do not, then keep your eye out for other folks to play with. Show up on FNM or Game Day, see who else visits the store. There is a very good chance you will find others who just want to play, or have an LGS they call home. Bring your own friends. Find out what day WOTC advertises for teaching rookies, and show up ready to show some new folks how to play.
I started being acknowledged once I beat one of their better players at a store championship, that and when they saw that my DCI number is smaller than 700000.... hehe.
I hope this helps.
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Thank you for all your stories and responses.
Anytime. Also, if you join MTGO, add me. "Mostlynotgay." I'm pretty garbage at deckbuilding, but I have fun ^_^
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When did I say you shouldn't go. I literally said you should because playing the game is the only way to learn. If people sre mean, you just have to consider how badly you want to learn and put up with
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A minor and potentially not helpful suggestion, but a suggestion nontheless- have you tried out other LGSs? This also assumes there are other LGSs in your area but i sometimes find that when there's more than one LGS in an area, competitive players tend to congregate (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Congregate) together at one place and the other(s) get left alone. Failing that, you could advertise for a low-power or new-player EDH session with the store. They tend to want to get in new players and love selling pre-con commander decks that aren't moving so quickly compared to others. The suggestion above the suggested to talk to the store people is a good one- they definitely want your service so they might be able to find you less try-harder players to play with. You should always be able to have fun playing magic, EDH especially, and there'll always be somebody out there who'll want to throw together absolute garbage in the name of having a fun 2-hr game. Don't be disheartened because the competitive crowd don't want you- you don't need them either.
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I never understood the mentality of excluding new people. Whenever I see a new person show up at my local game store, I'm the first to greet them. That might also be because I'm a very social person surrounded by introverts; someone has to make the first move.
Another thing I've noticed is that some LGS are more hostile than others. Trash attracts trash, and the only way to find treasure is to sift (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Sift) through the trash. There are friendly LGS and trash ones with trash people.
I have always been disappointed in how the Magic community treats certain people (discussion for another time). Cliques are always a problem, so avoid the hostile ones. Flip them two fingers and move on. There are plenty of friendly people (like the people in this thread) who you can hang out with instead. You could even start your own friendly group. You can ask the store owners if they know any casual players who are also looking for friends to play Magic with.
Someone has to make the first move.
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So I haven’t had an experience like this at my LGS luckily but I know I probably will have a similar experience in the future. I think that a reasonable way to handle this if you go to a new LGS and introduce yourself as some one who is a casual player but knows the game well and is just looking to for a group of people to play with you might get a better response. For me that is the scary part. I don’t play a whole lot at my LGS just because the one I like to go to is a bit farther than the closer one, the closer one I don’t know anybody there but I buy cards there occasionally because it is the same store owner as the other. But I know that the further one I am always welcome and the staff recognize me. If even being polite doesn’t work and they are just assholes the screw them and screw the store they should do a better job of being welcoming. Just because an LGS has a super tight player clique doesn’t mean that the staff can be welcoming and help bring in new people and get them playing too. What I did was I taught my dad and my best friend how to play and we play commander and causally together all the time. I have like 3 or 4 other friends who also play and they play with us occasionally. If not you may have to travel a bit further to find a better LGS with a friendlier community
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To add another point to my previous post...
There were several different LGS's the last place I lived. The one where I spent most of my time had a pretty good mix of people that were experienced and new, cutthroat and casual, etc.. Most of the more experienced, and more cutthroat, regulars were inviting to the newer players for the most part and a good portion of us carried decks that were different power levels so that they wouldn't just run over the newer or more casual players. We tried to not dismiss (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Dismiss) the new players when we wanted to play a game with our best decks, but we did explain to them the carnage they were about to be a part of if they stayed and played. More times than not they would stay in the game and take it as a learning experience while being "awed" by some of the things they were seeing.
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I've been having issues lately in enjoying myself at my LGS. Most of the other players I see there are the more hardcore tournament players who have their own little clique set up where everybody knows eachother and their decks, so games between them go by at a rapid pace. I tried joining them for a 6-way EDH (for my very first try at playing EDH, period), and it was pretty obvious that I wasn't part of their inner circle. I had to keep asking them to slow down and explain the cards that I didn't know and what they did, and they got pretty annoyed at me just because I didn't have every card in their deck memorized.
I don't play tournaments, I don't have the money or time to keep up with the Standard rotation, but I still feel like I deserve to be at that shop as much as the high-rollers and regulars. I want to enjoy the game, and for that I need other people, but I don't feel welcome at all no matter what shop I go to because the regulars always sniff me out as someone who doesn't belong. What can I do?
I feel the same way as you. I know the majority of the Deckstats community supports you in this.
You are correct. You deserve to be at that shop as much as any other.
No one should be made to feel excluded because:
- They are inexperienced.
- They are new to MTG.
- They aren't an LGS regular.
- Or they simply don't have the funds to support competitive trends.
The retailer of the store is as responsible for ensuring this, as much as, the LGS' community. Far too often do I see poor management and customer service from retailers. It isn't surprising that people end up leaving their LGS because they do not, nor are they willing to support new customers.
I have had similar experiences at a number of LGS' near me. I first played in a store, and the community was tolerant enough to new players. There were a few people that were hardcore competitive players. One person, in particular, an MTG Pro wannabe, always used to beat down us n00bs with his $300 tier 1 Dark Jeskai net deck. Back then, I didn't know what the trends were, or how to build something competitive to even attempt to challenge them. They were a douche, plain and simple (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Simple). They weren't gracious in victory, nor were they helpful. They seemed indignant that they were playing someone inexperienced, someone they considered beneath them.
In time I adapted, and so did the others.
However, unless you have that one person, that is willing to make you feel comfortable or accommodated, in your LGS, then it is going to be near impossible for you to want to continue.
Trust me, wanting to stay because it is close and the community SHOULD make you feel accepted, doesn't always happen.
You shouldn't have to keep going to a place that would make you want to die inside just to play magic.
I would suggest finding another place, because, despite the fact you are always going to find that super anal person that values winning and intolerance over all else, there are going to be inexperienced players, like you, that need you to form a clique, one of acceptance and most importantly, having fun playing MTG! ;)
It's not a cop out. If you know nothing and seriously want to learn then suck it up buddy because there's only one way.
When did I say you shouldn't go. I literally said you should because playing the game is the only way to learn. If people sre mean, you just have to consider how badly you want to learn and put up with
Sorin, you misunderstand. He doesn't want to stop playing at his LGS because he can't keep up, or doesn't want to get better. He justs wants to play in a friendly atmosphere, one where people that aren't impatient, and are willing to explain why they made certain plays, or the rulings of the cards, without being made to feel ostracised or stupid.
While I do not condone the way you expressed your view. There is some truth, but in this instance, I feel your point is not phrased in the correct way. These players, despite their nature, are good at playing the game, true enough, and to get better you need to have the mentality of rolling with the punches. But there is a distinction between being a superior player and making others feel uncomfortable because they aren't a part of another's social circle.
Anyway, that's hopefully the end of this discussion. I wish you luck Salohcin in your future experiences.