Deckstats Forum
English-language Forums => General Magic => Tópico iniciado por: bradcoish23 em Outubro 20, 2018, 01:48:46 am
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What do you feel is the most underrated evergreen keyword on creatures?
My choice is first strike.
First strike gets overlooked so often when people evaluate creatures.
Look at the current standard meta. Goblin Chainwhirler (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Goblin+Chainwhirler) is busted, but I believe the most unnecessary part is giving it first strike. It wins in combat against so many other creatures at around the same cmc. Knight of Grace (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Knight+of+Grace) is another example. If it hits 3 power it wins combat versus a crap ton of stuff, but even at 2 power it can still cause a lot of issues for an opponent blocking.
The other part that makes first strike so amazing is that it has so many tricks that people overlook:
1) The fact that it applies damage first allows for all kinds of shenanigans. Use a Knight of Grace (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Knight+of+Grace) to block a Golgari Findbroker (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Golgari+Findbroker) and then Shock (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Shock) it while the first strike damage is being applied. Your Knight survives and kills the Findbroker.
2) Use the fight mechanic with first strike and see what happens. Super fun. Lyra Dawnbringer (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Lyra+Dawnbringer) is awesome with this. Watch an opponent mistakenly try to use a Kraul Harpooner (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Kraul+Harpooner) to kill Lyra. Ok, your Harpooner dies, Lyra survives, and I gain life from the lifelink (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Lifelink). Funny.
I feel some people may argue for deathtouch. Well deathtouch can trade up, but it is going to die to every creature that it would die to in combat against anyway. First strike allows your creature to survive where a creature with the same stats would not. And let's not forget (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Forget) that in combat first strike trumps deathtouch as it deals damage first.
That's my thoughts. Anyone else have a choice they'd like to make a case for?
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First strike does not affect creatures in a fight.
701.10d The damage dealt when a creature fights isn’t combat damage.
702.7a First strike is a static ability that modifies the rules for the combat damage step.
Both creatures still deal damage (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Deal+Damage) at the same time with the fight mechanic. Deathtouch would still kill a bigger creature in a fight since the ability says "deals damage to."
First Strike is still very useful.
As to underrated Evergreen abilities, I will have to go with Hexproof. Being able to target your creature while your opponents cannot (unlike Hexproof's former evergreen predecessor Protection from, which only stopped specific categories) is a major advantage, requiring a boardwipe to destroy the creature. Especially when paired with other abilities, hexproof can turn games around.
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As weird as this sounds, I think people underrate vigilance (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Vigilance). At least in my current meta. Being able to swing while your beat sticks and still have them as blockers on your opponents turns is very nice.
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I always thought shroud was hexproof predecessor, seeing as it does the same thing except you can't target your own creature if it had shroud.
Personally, I think lifelink (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Lifelink) is underrated. It makes it so you can swing out, and gain some life so that your opponent's attack will not do as much. If you get it on a big creature (like Greaslebrand) than your opponent has to kill that creature, or fall so far behind on life that the game is really just over for them. Still using Greaslebrand as an example, as a 7/7, your opponent has to attack with 9 1/1s to deal 1 damage (assuming that Greaslebrand is untapped and can block). That is just to hard to overcome (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Overcome).
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Defender.
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Really, I think deathtouch. Oh, you have a 15/15? Here, let me kill it with a 1/1.
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Really, I think deathtouch. Oh, you have a 15/15? Here, let me kill it with a 1/1.
If you play white the Loyal Sentry (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=de&card=Loyal+Sentry) is even better for tricks like this. He kills at the declare blockers step, so trample or first strike doesn't care.
Btw, first strike + deathtouch is very nasty. I like to play Master of Cruelties (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=de&card=Master+of+Cruelties) as defensive option. He kills everything without first/double strike and survives.
I would say vigilance (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=de&card=Vigilance) and first strike are kinda underrated.
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Now for a serious answer. I don't think they're underrated, but I think the best ones are hexproof and haste.
Hexproof is great protection for creatures, and makes them so much harder to kill, so that's obviously useful.
Haste is also a great supporting effect. Not just for attacking sooner, but creatures with activated abilities that require tapping get a lot better with haste.
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Hello everyone, my 50ct.:
i think first strike is the most underrated keyword for known reasons.
may be not a "current evergreen keyword" but underrated: wither. it can slow down huge threads and even kill indestructible things.
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may be not a "current evergreen keyword" but underrated: wither. it can slow down huge threads and even kill indestructible things.
So does Infect.
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Flash (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Flash) because not only do you get a decent to strong effect but also a defender. I cant tell you how many times i flashed something in not for the effect but for a body and that was enough to turn the game around.
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I'd probably go with scry. If you don't need that next card it goes bye bye. It is nice to have information that you can either use or put it at the bottom
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@WWolfe: sure, but i think infect is not underrated.
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Wither and Infect neither one are evergreen keywords. https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Evergreen
Wither is an underrated ability though. I was just pointing out that Infect also can kill indestructible creatures.
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No love for flying here? I suppose it doesn’t fall into the category “underrated” considering pretty much every one knows it’s extremely powerful. I guess flying aside, vigilance (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Vigilance) seems to crop up the most value for me personally, but especially so in draft environments. I’ve found that even a creature as simple (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Simple) as Vernadi Shieldmate (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Vernadi+Shieldmate) can define the early game of a draft in GRN.
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Trample. A 15/15 will only do so much if it can get distracted by a 0/1 bird.
Seriously, trample has been making the difference between chump-blocks and game-overs since day 0, yet the only mention it got in this thread so-far was in a post about how nasty it is to combine first strike with deathtouch. As far as underrated goes, you got your winner.
And on that note, yes, deathtouch & first strike do form a pretty spiffy synergy, but did you ever wonder (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=de&card=Wonder) why there's not a single creature out there that combines trample and deathtouch? Well, it turns out that "any amount of damage is lethal" is a bit too ludicrous if you pair it with "any damage done to blockers beyond lethal damage carries over to defending player/planeswalker."
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Really, I think deathtouch. Oh, you have a 15/15? Here, let me kill it with a 1/1.
Underrated, not overpowered. Silly.
My choice would be trample. People fear (https://cards.deckstats.net/magiccard.php?lng=en&card=Fear) a vanilla 6/6 for 6 as much as a 6/6 for 6 with trample. Even though only one of those can be chump blocked.
Hmm perhaps shouldn't have used the number 6. Oh well, I think I am going there anyway.
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I like First Strike a lot. Having played Narset, it allows a lot of things to go your way that otherwise wouldn't.
Obviously Trample and Hexproof are good, but I don't think they are underrated at all.