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Commander Discussion / Non-stax Lavinia?

« on: December 08, 2023, 02:20:49 am »

TL;DR: I'm trying to find a creative/off-beat way of winning with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade without going full stax and using the standard combo with her and Omen Machine and/or Knowledge Pool.

I hate stax.  I don't like playing it, and I despise playing against it.  When I sit down to play Magic, I want to play the game.  Stax says, "Well, you can't, and if you do, it costs more, comes in tapped, might cause you to lose resources, and oh, by the way, you can only cast one thing and draw one card per turn, if you can play at all."

Similarly, I hate playing in an environment where I feel like I have to play stax to stay competitive or have a chance at winning.  The group of friends I have that I spend the most time with is the same group that got me into magic in the first place, but they tend to play faster/higher-powered than I like.  For example, one guy has a Krark/Sakashima deck and had a Muldrotha reanimator deck; one had a Meren deck that turned into Kokusho, a Maelstrom Wanderer deck that started as cEDH and he tuned down some, and brewed a Pantlaza flicker deck as soon as the card was spoiled (before it dominated in tournaments a couple weekends ago); and the last guy has an Eldrazi tribal deck, a cascade-oriented Jodah, Archmage Eternal deck, and insists on playing Mana Crypt and Moxes in every deck he builds.  The other friend in the group who quit playing a couple years ago had OG Kaalia, Azusa, and Azami as three of his commanders.

All that being said, when Lavinia, Azorius Renegade got printed, I was so excited.  She was the commander I'd wanted that could help shut down some of the more degenerate stuff that I didn't like playing against - free spells, fast mana, cheated costs on giant spells or creatures, etc.  I'd then run things like Containment Priest to prevent creatures from being cheated into play for free, Grafdigger's Cage and Soulless Jailer to stop animation of some disgusting or huge creature just Entombed, and Void Mirror (which all but completely singlehandedly shuts down a colorless Eldrazi deck).

The problem is that, unless you play her full stax, there's really no clear or reliable win condition.  She requires so much protection that I could go voltron, but that requires too much additional support for something that's only a 2/2.  I thought about Human or Soldier tribal synergies, but then I'd just be better off playing Harbin, Vanguard Aviator.  I threw together a rough draft of what I'd like the deck to look like (didn't do anything special with the lands), but I can't figure out a reliable way to win with it beside the Knowledge Pool or Omen Machine combo with Lavinia that hard locks people out of the game - or a way to do it fast enough that I don't have to play hardcore stax - or what of my "play fair" cards I have to sacrifice to get a win condition in the deck.  The idea is just to force people to "play fair," not to keep them from playing at all.

Any ideas?  Apologies for maybeboard size; that's just a side effect of how I build decks.

https://deckstats.net/decks/115144/3295960-no-funny-business

2

Commander Deck Reviews / Karonavirus

« on: April 24, 2023, 07:13:42 pm »

This deck is something I've toyed around with for a few years (long before the pandemic).  It really took the Impetus cycle and other Goad effects to be viable.  It's effectively a hybrid between pillow fort enchantress and Assault Suit Zurgo Helmsmasher: enchant Karona, make sure she can't attack you, then watch as the other players kill themselves with your commander.

I'm constantly trying to fine-tune it and keep running into the same primary problem: I effectively need nine mana to cast Karona and attach either an Impetus or Vow Aura to her so that I don't immediately die to my own commander, so the deck is incredibly slow.  I've looked at changing the land base to include basics and then running traditional ramp spells like Cultivate, but it really doesn't help speed the deck up all that much.  Second problem is Karona simply getting removed.  Since she gives control of herself to other people, things that give a creature Hexproof do not prevent her current controller from targeting her.  Canopy Cover and Shielding Plax are the only cards of which I'm aware that outright say your opponents can't target the creature, regardless of controller.  Card draw is hit or miss as well: there are only 10(ish) sources in the deck, and several rely on casting enchantments, but a significant portion of the enchantments in the deck are ones that I want to save to cast on Karona.  If I had an Argothian Enchantress or a Rhystic Study, I'd for sure find a way to cram them into the deck.  As it is, they are $40 cards and I do not own either.

Recently, I added a number of the "Enchant land" auras that serve as ramp to help with this - in addition to some other minor tweaks - but now I need to make cuts to get back down to 100 cards.  There are a few on which I'd like a second opinion.  Any other ideas or advice beyond that is welcome.

Prismatic Geoscope - Cons: Five mana for a rock that comes in tapped and can end up doing literally nothing without the right lands.  Pros: Half of my lands have two or more types, I run Prismatic Omen and Dryad of the Ilysian Grove, and I have ways of tutoring for the triple-typed lands.  If this comes down enabled before turn six, it really gives me the gas I need to get Karona going.  Even if it comes down after, being able to tap a single thing for five mana is great if Karona gets killed.
Slimefoot's Survey - Cons: Basically five mana for Explosive Vegetation.  Pros: Tutor up two triomes and you also effectively scry five, plus you guarantee Geoscope and Collective Restraint are fully turned on.
Mazzy, Truesword Paladin - Pros: Serves as a way to give Karona some evasion and also gives some amount of protection to any Auras on her; considering Hall of Heliod's Generosity is the only recursion in the deck, if I can't cast them again and they stay exiled, it's not the end of the world.  Cons: Really doesn't do anything else by herself.
Privileged Position - Pros: Additional protection for my enchantments, which are core to the success of the deck.  Cons: This plus Sterling Grove makes it nearly impossible to interact with your board, which is not fun for anyone else and makes you a bigger target than you already might be.
Sovereigns of Lost Alara and Zur the Enchanter: Pros: serve as ways to cheat out enchantments onto Karona without needing to cast them (potentially saving three mana off the aforementioned nine if they hit the field before her). Zur can also fetch card draw, a little ramp, and some of the pillows.  Cons: I guess if they are both on the field at the same time, one is basically useless.

Holy Avenger, Errantry, and Umezawa's Jitte are currently not in the deck but are all interesting tech cards.  They didn't feel impactful enough, so I removed them.  Cards like Ethereal Armor would be good, but I do not have room in the deck for an effect that is only a straight buff.  Please forgive the massive maybeboard.  I tend to leave unused cards there for potential future reference as opposed to just cutting them outright.

https://deckstats.net/decks/115144/1156982-karonavirus-karona-false-god-e

3

General Magic / Rules question: Vehicles becoming creatures without crewing

« on: April 03, 2023, 09:48:56 pm »

The LGS to which I go to play Commander on Saturdays has a special theme every other week that adds something to the game or changes deck construction rules.  Once a month, the theme is that each player can choose a Vanguard from the original Vanguard sets to play with (some are banned for balance, of course, like Lyna).  This time, I'm building a Depala vehicles deck with Karn as the Vanguard, and I ran into a bit of a conundrum.

The Karn vanguard is effectively an Emblem version of March of the Machines.  He reads, "Each noncreature artifact you control is an artifact creature with power and toughness each equal to its mana value."  The rule for Vehicle cards in question is 301.7b: "If a Vehicle becomes a creature, it immediately has its printed power and toughness. Other effects, including the effect that makes it a creature, may modify these values or set them to different values."

I see two ways this interaction could work.  Take Smuggler's Copter as an example:
1) As it is cast and before it hits the battlefield, it is a noncreature artifact spell.  When it hits the battlefield, as a check of state-based effects, Karn sees it and makes it an artifact creature with power and toughness 2 (equal to CMC).  Now, since it has become a creature, per the first sentence of 301.7b, it now has its printed power and toughness (3/3).
2) Karn's effect supersedes the printed power and toughness of Copter and makes it 2/2, per the second sentence of 301.7b.

I believe the second scenario is the correct one.  Part 2 of the question: if this is true, can a vehicle "regain" its printed power/toughness if it is crewed?  A ruling on March of Machines from 7/15/07 reads, "If a noncreature artifact becomes an artifact creature this way and then another effect animates it, the new effect overrides March of the Machines’s effect. For example, Chimeric Staff is a 4/4 creature while March of the Machines is on the battlefield. If you activate Chimeric Staff’s ability and choose X = 5, Chimeric Staff will be a 5/5 artifact creature for the rest of the turn."  I understand that crewing the vehicle doesn't change its power and toughness values and that the vehicle in question is already a creature, but crewing it would "animate" it, allowing it to become a creature independent of Karn's effect.  Does that cause it to now gain its printed values, or are they still equal to the card's CMC?

Something like Cyberdrive Awakener or Workshop Elders is very clear, as they would set the base power/toughess of the vehicles as they become creatures.  All the other cards don't seem to be quite as clear-cut (Karn, Silver Golem; Karn's Touch; the +1 ability on Karn, the Great Creator; Sydri, Galvanic Genius; Titania's Song; Toymaker; Xenic Poltergeist; and the Karn vanguard).

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Deckstats Feedback / Suggestion: Modify automatic tagging of card names in forum posts

« on: August 30, 2022, 06:38:17 pm »

Sorry if this is something that's already been said (I went through the first three pages of past posts and didn't see any mention of it), but I would suggest that the behavior of forum posts is changed to not automatically insert a tag for card names that are included in the database.  Either that, or change the automatic tagging to be case-sensitive so that, when the text is parsed after a user hits "Post," it doesn't tag anything that doesn't exactly match the card name.  The latter would be more desirable and shouldn't be too difficult.  Unlike the tags for text styles (i.e. bold, italics, etc.), right now it is not possible to include a card name and NOT have it tagged - even if one edits one's post after making it to remove the flags for the card tag, they just automatically get added again once the post is saved.

It's great to not have to click an extra button to insert the card preview tag if I want to reference, say, Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar.  However, if I were to tell you that I want you to consider this an opportunity to change your game plan but will not despise you if you opt not to, there are words getting tagged that aren't supposed to be referring to a card in the post.  It's certainly not anything critical or even a nuisance, just a quality improvement thing.

5

General Magic / Rules Quesion - Upkeep triggers

« on: August 12, 2022, 07:07:34 pm »

I've asked a few different people this question and haven't been able to get a definitive answer.

I have a Karona, False God deck with a pillow fort package and I've considered adding Koskun Falls, but I'm not sure how the triggers interact with each other.  Karona reads, "At the beginning of each player’s upkeep, that player untaps Karona, False God and gains control of it."  Falls reads, "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Koskun Falls unless you tap an untapped creature you control."  Here's how I envision the situation:

1) Koskun Falls is on the battlefield under my control, but I do not control any creatures.  I own Karona, but she is currently on the battlefield under an opponent's control (the one directly before me in turn order).  That opponent passes his turn, so it is now my turn.
2) Untap, upkeep.  Karona and Falls both have upkeep triggers.  Triggers are placed on the stack in APNAP (active player, non-active player) turn order, so my Falls trigger goes on the stack first, followed by Karona's trigger last.
3) Karona's trigger will resolve first, so I untap Karona and gain control of her.  Then the Falls trigger resolves last, so I tap Karona and do not have to sacrifice Falls.

Is this correct, or would I have to choose a creature to tap at the time my Falls's trigger goes on the stack and before I gain control of Karona?  If it's the latter, then I would have to sacrifice Falls because I did not control any creatures at the beginning of my upkeep (i.e. at the time Falls's trigger goes on the stack, it sees that I have no creatures to tap, so I would have to sacrifice it after the stack resolves).


It's a similar situation with regard to some of the Background enchantments that have upkeep triggers, but I do understand how those interact with Karona.  Cultist of the Absolute, for example, reads, "Commander creatures you own get +3/+3 and have flying, deathtouch, 'Ward—Pay 3 life,' and 'At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice a creature.'"  Since I would not control Karona at the beginning of my upkeep, the sacrifice trigger does not go on the stack; I would not gain control of Karona until after all other upkeep triggers have been resolved, so I do not have to sacrifice anything (nor does anyone else as she gets passed around the table).

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Commander Deck Reviews / Construction advice? Jared Carthalion, True Heir

« on: December 26, 2021, 07:32:57 am »

I've been working on a Jared deck for some time now, and every time I create a new iteration it just doesn't quite feel right.  In the current one that I feel best about, I need to make a few cuts, but I still feel like the deck has a bit of an identity crisis (no pun intended).

The problems I keep encountering with Jared are retaining Monarch long enough to be able to pump him by dealing damage either through combat (not reliable), fighting (useless without Monarch and lackluster unless he's already relatively big), and big boardwipes (like Blasphemous Act... of course running these makes me want to throw in things like Brash Taunter and Toralf as alternative wincons); and him just dying to removal (which compounds the Monarch problem given his ETB).  Every way I try to build the deck, I find myself very light on creatures for blocking, which also necessitates a pillow for package.  Blending everything makes the deck inconsistent, but leaning too heavily into any one of those packages makes it feel like I should just pick a different commander that's better for that given mechanic.  It's intended to be more of a fun deck than a competitve or powerful one, but I'd still like some level of consistency and optimization.

Aside from which cards to cut, any further advice regarding this deck/commander in general would be greatly appreciated.  Also, please ignore the messy "Maybeboard."  It's gigantic as a side effect of how I tend to utilize the deckbuilding tool.  Thanks!

EDIT: I accidentally deleted the revision that existed when I made the post prior to any changes being made, so I had to update the link to show the most recent one.

Jared Carthalion, True Fabio

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Deck Reviews / [EDH / Commander] When Mogis Wants Green - Help with Final Cuts?

« on: September 21, 2018, 06:49:19 am »

When Mogis Wants Green

I'm a relatively new Magic player (only really started playing EDH with friends a few months ago), but I'm not entirely foreign to TCGs like Magic (I've played quite a bit of Hearthstone, which is basically MTG for Dummies).  My biggest problem with deck construction is that I try to make the deck do too much by incorporating too many different themes.  This deck started as a Mogis/Kaervek punisher deck, but then I ran across Ruric Thar and had to get Green into the mix.  I need to cut 34 cards (I know, it's a lot) to get it down to a legal EDH deck, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to cut.  Budget should be a consideration for me, as I'm trying to keep the cost as low as possible if I were to actually buy components for the deck.  That being said, I really only play EDH casually with a small group of friends I've known for years a few times a month, so one or two proxies wouldn't be a big deal.

Cards I'm currently considering cutting:
Vicious Shadows
Chaos Warp
Vigor
Erebos, God of the Dead
Sheoldred, Whispering One
Sangromancer
Whip of Erebos
Forgotten Ancient
Managorger Hydra
Zo-Zu the Punisher
Heartwood Storyteller
Vengeful Pharaoh
Massacre Wurm
Reassembling Skeleton

Ignore the Maybeboard for the most part.  Those are essentially cards I looked at just to give me some ideas of what I could do that I cut in my first pass. Any advice, whether specific to this deck or generally, would be appreciated.