Messages

16

Commander Discussion / Re: "Over-optimizing" a deck

« on: May 19, 2021, 07:07:56 pm »

Maybe their meta is just super relaxed, like precon level relaxed?

Yes, sure, it could be, and I didn't want to come off as patronizing.
However with the improvement precons have undergone recently, I think that aiming to have more card draw is better at any level, from which my comment.

Well I mean it's perfectly fine to disagree or have other opinions.  My group is super relaxed and we just lack the card draw.  If I added more than 2 or 3 to my decks they'd quickly stifle the rest of the group.  However, what I should really say is I think that, relaxed or non-relaxed groups aside, the choice is card draw OR tutors.  I don't mind people using either or as a focus, but playing with both gets towards the "over-optimised" level I think.  I also think decks that tutor too much are quite boring to play against - oh, there's that tutor again, guess which card they're going for etc and all that. 

I do agree that more card draw is better - but that's kind of the point of this whole thread, isn't it? Ways to build that improve but don't over-optimise for your group?  The way I look at it is, even though I COULD trick my decks out with all kinds of neat things, which definitely "improve" it, if I don't have fun playing it because my group refuse to go against it, it's a pointless improvement, and actually something that harms the deck and my enjoyment.  So it's quite easy for me to stop at a point where I'm satisfied, so after a point added "investment" is dead money. I know that's part of your point, but my angle is that I prefer not having optimised decks overall.  It's that or change my group, and I'm not willing to do that.  That said, eventually, the power level creeps up - two of the group have started building strong decks (still janky in places because we have fun that way) so who knows whether my plans for improvements will stay forever on the "upgrades" wishlist or if they'll make it to the deck?

17

Commander Discussion / Re: Commander Varient

« on: May 18, 2021, 09:44:04 pm »

Off the top of my head, I have budget decks built around these four uncommon commanders:

Zada, Hedron Grinder
Syr Konrad, the Grim
Araumi of the Dead Tide
Abomination of Llanowar

They're some of favourite decks and very, very fun to play.

18

Commander Discussion / Re: "Over-optimizing" a deck

« on: May 18, 2021, 09:31:14 pm »

I have a similar problem.  The rest of my group don't really enjoy deck building whereas I almost enjoy it more than playing Most of my decks are deliberately underpowered from where I would like to have them, but I prefer them that way as it keeps the games fun.  I just stick to a few rules: no tutors (or no tutors that cost less than three and are only tutors, so a tutor on a creature will be all right); only two or three ways to draw cards (unless that's the point of the deck, such as Locust God), but then I'll limit something else; no crazy lands like Gaea's Cradle or expensive fetch lands; building to a theme to the point that the deck is automatically hampered but remains a fun, janky deck; building around low-powered commanders or ones with limitations; building to a budget etc.  There's a lot of ways I have found that allow multiple upgrades but keep the deck in line and, actually, keeps the building more fun because you don't stick to the "go-to" cards.  Not every green deck has a Sylvan Library, for instance.

The most fun I have it either taking a weird idea or theme and sticking to it.  Pirates are awesome and perform very, very well even when every spell you have in the deck HAS to relate in some way to the thieving critters.  They've got some love lately, so I'll be upgrading my pirate deck with a few cool creatures, but you can bet I'll never swap out "Walk the Plank".  That card has won me the game in the past and there's NOTHING more satisfying than playing a pirate deck and making someone else's creature walk the plank.

19

Commander Discussion / Re: What is your favourite win condition?

« on: May 18, 2021, 09:21:37 pm »

I like winning without using the combat step.  Mill is one of my favourites and always feels great, especially in a game format like commander because actually milling 3 plus other opponents is not as easy as it sounds.  I have to stick to one or two crazy mill games a month, however, as the rest of my group hate it when I play mill (not as much as they hate my ninjas, however).

I like creature decks when they do unexpected things as well - basically, when I've built a deck that turns out smarter than I am and it does something I didn't realise it could do.

20

Commander Discussion / Re: How consistent is your playgroup? And how does that affect your deck building?

« on: May 18, 2021, 09:17:33 pm »

My group all play the same every time, and I'm the only one that builds on a regular basis.  Two of my group like to be very flashy and they seem threatening straight away, the other person likes to do nothing then suddenly one-shot someone. I like to ensure everyone has a good time but remains constantly unsure what I'm going to do and what threat I pose   I also don't mind going out first and watching everyone else play their decks.  I learn a lot by watching.  We have a few rules and deliberately keep the competitive level down.  I very purposefully do not run tutors in my decks, nor do we use expensive fetch lands; no land destruction except the very odd Decimate here and there; no stax (if we can help it); basically, nothing that actually "prevents" someone else playing the game.  We like fun, splashy plays and surprise attacks and we don't go crazy with the budget so we can limit the power creep.  Most of my decks hover around the £100 mark, and some of my best came in much cheaper. 

21

Commander Deck Reviews / Re: token deck needs work?

« on: May 11, 2021, 04:05:03 pm »

I would also keep Panharmonicon.  You have it in there for your commander's triggered ability only, but boy will it trigger!  If you HAVE to make a cut, then you don't need it, but it could be so fun to pop off and create millions of tokens (or counters).

but how many creatures create tokens? From the Op’s fist iteration of the deck there wasn’t that many. Don”t need pan harmonicas being a dead card

It's more to do with triggering his commander.  Provided the commander is on the board, anything that makes tokens will trigger the commander, which will trigger Panharmonicon. Like I said, though, this card can be cut, it's not a must-have.  However, if there is space in the deck, I'd keep it over some of the other cards.

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Commander Deck Reviews / Re: token deck needs work?

« on: May 07, 2021, 08:19:35 pm »

I would also keep Panharmonicon.  You have it in there for your commander's triggered ability only, but boy will it trigger!  If you HAVE to make a cut, then you don't need it, but it could be so fun to pop off and create millions of tokens (or counters).

23

Commander Deck Reviews / Re: token deck needs work?

« on: May 06, 2021, 09:44:35 pm »

Hmm you are right about lands, though you have enough in the deck that it probably doesn't matter too much if some come in tapped.  I personally almost never run lands that come in tapped, but that does push the cost up if you want to run lands that offer more than one colour of mana.  I would personally ditch Simic Growth Chamber like a hot potato unless you're running a discard deck.  I know, it gives 2 mana, but oh my goodness I draw too many bounce lands on turn 1 and 2.  I've run a lot of decks using almost entirely basic lands though, and I honestly don't have too many issues ramping or just keeping up.  The key there is keeping the mana cost of your other spells down as well, but green has a bunch of ramp sorceries and blue has a load of card draw, so honestly, if you're worried about cost and you are concerned your lands come in tapped, just run more basics and swap in a couple more ramp spells maybe.

You may find that if you aim to focus slightly more on tokens rather than counters and tokens, you could cut a few things here and there without missing them (though honestly, counters and tokens is kind of my thing - works its way into almost every deck, whether that's my focus or not!).  If this were my deck and I were making cuts, I would probably swap The Bears of Littjara out for a different enchantment.  It's going away anyway and though it makes a token, the synergy isn't really there with the rest of your deck.  You don't, I think, have any other shapeshifters, for instance.  It's not bad, but it's not adding much.  The third tier is particularly lacklustre, unless your group runs a serious amount of proliferate and has creatures that run into the 100s with their toughness (it does happen, my friend smacked me with a 160 power creature with trample the other day just to ram through my 52 2/3 tokens, haha, not to mention he was running a clone deck and that massive creature ... yeah, kind of my fault).

Similarly with Reflections of Littjara.  I didn't get the feeling from your decklist that you are going for any sort of tribal synergy, so choosing a creature type style cards are not really that great.  Again, not bad, but could definitely be swapped for a stronger enchantment that doesn't break the bank.  I am also not personally a fan of Simic Ascendancy, but that's just me, it will work well in your deck if you don't choose to slim down the counters sub-theme.

I may also consider cutting Eureka Moment.  I know, it puts a land out, but personally, I still think it's expensive for 2 cards, when blue has so many more ways to draw cards.  Same with Nissa's Expedition.  Yes, your creatures can help pay the cost, but ... it's not bad, but I'd rather have some enchantments that stick around and draw you cards every time a creature enters the battlefield or something.  If you only bought one card and put your entire budget to that (and it's only $7) I would suggest Zendikar Resurgent.  Doubles your mana and draws a card every time you cast a creature spell.  A handy artifact, if you prefer, is Lifecrafter's Bestiary, which lets you scry and when you play a creature you can pay one green and draw a card.  Or if you want to stick with creatures, Tatyova, Benthic Druid ($4).  No, she doesn't make tokens, but she has landfall, gains you life and draws a card.  If you're running blue/green I can't see how you can resist (sorry, I get way too excited building decks and I like trying to keep to budgets - it controls power creep, provides challenge and my playgroup has a fun time).  My final suggestion for a card might be Ezuri's Predation.  You have cards that care about 4/4 and this sorcery can put a LOT of them into play.  It is a few dollars, but oh so worth (more worth than Nissa's Expedition).

I'm assuming this deck is essentially an upgrade for the precon commander deck just released?  It's a decent deck as is, so most of your changes will still be good regardless.  I've offered a few options to sub out (assuming you may sub in some of my previous suggestions), but I do completely understand why you wouldn't want to spend much more money on it.  Good luck either way - last time I played the precon against my playgroup this deck bounced back from boardwipes ridiculously quickly.  By the end, I realised I'd forgotten half the double the tokens triggers and I still had no issues rebuilding my board time and time again.  Have fun

24

Commander Deck Reviews / Re: token deck needs work?

« on: May 04, 2021, 10:30:16 pm »

I might add Quest for Renewal.  It's a cheap(ish) way to give your creatures vigilance.  It's not Seedborn Muse, but it's cheaper, and as an enchantment it is a little bit more resistant against removal spells (at least in my playgroup as we don't tend to run much enchantment hate).  A cheaper, token generating planeswalker, like Garruk, Primal Hunter or Nissa, Voice of Zendikar will cost less than a dollar too.  I'm not sure what your budget is and what you would consider "breaking the bank".  I don't see, for instance, Avenger of Zendikar on your list.  It's a $10 card, so I can see why, but it could be worth the investment for the one card.  Similarly, Beastmaster Ascension is a common way for token decks to deal big damage, but it's also a $10 card.  If Beastmaster isn't the way, a one-turn effect like Overwhelming Stampede might be worth it, and that's much more affordable.  Full Flowering is a fantastic sorcery for token decks (actually, do a search for the key term "populate").  A little more expensive, but fun, is Tempt with Reflections - again, it's about $8 so that might be too over-budget for you.  Garruk's Uprising, Elemental Bond, Zendikar's Roil, Sandwurm Convergence, Followed Footsteps and Hadana's Climb are all useful enchantments for a token deck. I hope any of these suggestions are interesting and helpful to you! Have fun with your new deck