Messages

31

Commander Discussion / Re: The power of "color hosers"

« on: June 04, 2021, 08:25:45 pm »

I think its main wincon is "no one wants to play magic with you anymore".

32

Commander Discussion / Re: The power of "color hosers"

« on: June 04, 2021, 10:53:15 am »

Okay, wow this is a bad deck but here we are.

There were two directions to go with this deck: hose colors or hose lands. I went with hosing colors because I'm not the monster that's going to make a 5 color MLD deck. Either way, the deck wants Mind Bend effects to aim the hose in productive directions.

Looking over the options, there were enchantments that punish certain colors and instants/sorceries that were color-targeted wipes/damage/discard. I focused on enchantments because they provided the most chance to change them to suit the board. Perish could easily be a dead draw without something like Sleight of Mind also in hand, but you can drop Putrefaction on the board and then aim it around later when you draw Mind Bend. The oppressive enchantments add up to a stax-y theme, and that's supported by Reaper King's destruction effect. I skipped the creature-based hosers because the only way this deck could be viable is if it broke symmetry by not having colored creatures to get hosed by the rest of the deck. It means you lose out on stellar combos like Northern Paladin + Whim of Volrath, but that's okay because that's an asinine work-around when you have access to all five colors. Actually, that describes most of what this deck has the potential to do, so whatever, lean into it.

Scarecrows are a bad tribe. I love them but it's true. But if the deck is going to care about color manipulation, that's probably the place scarecrows will get the most support. I considered cards like Door of Destinies but decided that trying to make scarecrows good is a trap that will just eat card slots. As far as I'm concerned, these guys are just variously-costed copies of Vindicate. That said, once they're on the board they've got some fun color-based shenanigans that either activate based on colors you control or give (overcosted) buffs to creatures of certain colors. It's not good, but it's something to do while you needlessly draw out the game with Light of Day and Painter's Servant (until it gets banned again for exactly this reason).

https://deckstats.net/decks/152524/2092266-reaper-king-enemy-colors

I honestly don't know how this deck wins other than trying to get to commander damage with Reaper King and Magistrate's Veto. Also, I don't play stax but even I know that this could be a way better stax deck by ditching the color angle and using, um, stax cards. Dodging symmetrical effects by sticking to colorless creatures really limits the options. The only reason I could see for devoting a deck to color hosing is if you wanted to play stax but for some reason didn't want to hit the whole board. Maybe it's a way to generate less hate so your terrible tribe doesn't get stomped? I think with a lot of work this could turn into something, if some of the hose cards were replaced with more conventional options (hose-based draw is really unreliable, for example). The basic idea of stax (if I understand) is to make the game terrible to play, but less so for you because you knew ahead of time. By hosing colors and only playing colorless creatures, this is technically that. You could keep the board oppressed and scarecrow-Vindicate anything of value that your opponents manage to cast. It is a bit more discriminating than stax decks usually get to be, so you can spread the hate or stack all the effects on one player who needs it. I don't think it will ever be good, but at its best it might be able to make everyone else feel like they're playing a scarecrow deck too.

Overall, you could probably achieve a much better deck with a lot less hassle, but I'm kind of curious to see if this would work. I'd love suggestions oh how to make this playable.

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Commander Discussion / Re: The power of "color hosers"

« on: June 02, 2021, 04:59:35 am »

Those are some nice ones! I like the idea of using enchantments that hose colors because a lot of scarecrows check whether you have a permanent of a certain color (the enchantment) but won't be hit by the any of the effects since they're colorless. It's easier to bring everyone else down rather than try to raise scarecrows up!

It's funny, I was also thinking of Veil of Summer after I wrote my post. My mind was stuck in the old "enemy colors" era of cards, I guess. But yeah, Veil is the Pyroblast you want. A card that knows exactly what it's doing.

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Commander Discussion / Re: The power of "color hosers"

« on: June 01, 2021, 10:15:05 pm »

Alright, alright. Fine.

I've been trying to find the right angle for a jank Reaper King deck, and I guess you've twisted my arm and forced me to make a color hosing deck. Those silly scarecrows are already obsessed with colors, so I guess this just makes sense.

I felt like I knew the hosers pretty well, but I had not known Dream Tides even though I have a soft spot for the Mirage block. So I'd love some suggestions!

This is going to be a weird deck.

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Commander Discussion / Re: The power of "color hosers"

« on: May 28, 2021, 12:10:37 pm »

I definitely spent time avoiding these effects due to worrying about bad color matchups, but I've been adding more to my decks lately. It was Compost that really brought me around, since its condition is tied so well to the color it hoses (black cards tend to go into the graveyard a lot) which makes the ceiling insane.

I found that my worry about dead draws was a lot less likely in practice than I had thought. In an EDH game, not only do you have three other players, but there's a high chance (compared to other formats) of multi- or even all-colored decks. It feels rare (at least in my meta) to have games where all players are within the same 2 or 3 colors, so there's probably someone running at least some of the color you're hosing, and if they are, then you know the most important card in their deck will probably count as that color too. I think this is one of those cases where cards that are hard to justify in two-player magic end up translating really well to this multi-player format.

I've had fun so far with Elephant Grass (in pillow fort) and Heat Wave (in aggro), since you don't have to pay those upkeep costs very long to get work out of them. Cards like Stromgald Cabal and Lifeforce aren't necessarily versatile, but they're powerful, off-color effects, and can cause a lot of damage in the right setting. A repeatable green Counterspell is scary, even if it's only scary to some (or, actually, a lot of) decks.

I agree that the MLD hosing like Boil or Tsunami feel really mean, and not even in a fun way (blue decks probably do have it coming though). I don't run them anywhere right now, but there are some card that only go half as far, like Conversion, Karma, and Chill that have the same vindictive sort of fun, but without utterly shutting down one person at the table.

I wouldn't go all in on hosing, or hose for hosing's sake, but if I find a card that fits what I'm trying to do, but is limited by color targets, I'm much more likely to give it a shot now than I used to be.

36

Deck Reviews / Re: life deck (first deck i've made)

« on: May 11, 2021, 09:26:38 pm »

Yeah! Good list of improvements! It's obviously more cards than you need, but it looks like you have the kind of pile that can make this deck work (and unused cards turn into future deck ideas!). Don't worry if your deck goes through a few different versions as you work on it. Often, an early stage of a deck is just getting it to the point where it actually does the thing that you want it to do in a way that you can count on. Then, you can start sharpening it. For example, this deck first wants to get to the point where you are consistently gaining life and hitting lifegain triggers. After the basic "machine" of the deck works, then you can start weeding out cards that don't feel like they contribute and start focusing on just what triggers you need (e.g. more creature removal, more damage, more protection).

As you get to know the deck, you'll notice more nuance in your fixes, like whether your lifegain deck wants big gulps of life (that Sanguine Bond likes) or frequent little sips of life (that work with Cliffhaven Vampire). Also, when you play it, treat losing (and you will lose a lot at first) as a stress-test for your deck, not a failure. If your opponent keeps removing key combo pieces, maybe look for ways to return things from your graveyard (e.g. Animate Dead or Font of Return). If you keep getting smashed by superior cards, put in a few more removal effects (e.g. Seal of Cleansing and Seal of Doom). You may eventually learn (like a lot of us) that enchantments are really cool, but they're not very fast or reactive, so you may want more instants to do things on your opponent's turn. And always add more draw if you can. There is a point of diminishing returns, but it is much further off than you'd think. It's important not to run out of fuel, especially with a deck like this that relies on a bunch of pieces working together and wants things to just keep happening rather than swing in for big creature damage.

I agree about the Genju cards. I do sometimes use them, but I play terrible jank. It's a good thought in this deck, since they are low-cost enchantments that can be recast, and Genju of the Fields gains life. They will trigger constellation and lifegain effects, but the big issue is that it costs 2 to turn them into a creature for a turn. Accounting for the opportunity cost of using a land for a creature, you'd lose 3 mana each turn for a lackluster creature. It ends up feeling bad unless you've got some weird payoff in play. If you're looking for recastable enchantments, you could look to stuff like Conviction and Mourning. Not great effects, but repeatable at will.

Looking at your list of cards to buy, it definitely seems like you get it. I'd love to see the final list when your done 

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Deck Reviews / Re: life deck (first deck i've made)

« on: May 10, 2021, 10:33:30 pm »

I was so close to going the Orah direction too. If it were me, I would definitely bring this collection to a singleton format, since there's less disadvantage to a smaller collection there. They are much more forgiving to jank as well. There are a few neat build-around pieces in this collection that would be worth exploring as more cards are added to support wider strategies. I'm actually sort of jealous. Researching new cards and learning how to build decks has always been my favorite part of the game.

38

Deck Reviews / Re: life deck (first deck i've made)

« on: May 10, 2021, 09:38:30 pm »

I took a look through your collection and put together a list that is a bit more focused (cuts in the sideboard). You had a good amount of constellation and enchantment support, so I recommend removing as many artifacts as you can and replacing them with enchantments. The enchantments you own tended toward a liflink/deathtouch pairing, which is nice because it lets your creatures punch above their weight class if you don't have all the best ones yet. You don't have a Sanguine Bond to combo with Exquisite Blood, but you do have a few copies of Pestilence, and that can also be pretty fun with Exquisite Blood out. You have to remember not to kill all your own creatures, but if you put an Aspect of Gorgon on a Grim Guardian, you can probably wipe the board before it would die. And the mutual damage is a good way to use up all the life you've stolen.

I swapped out the diamonds for a couple of Sol Rings. It's not obvious when you first start playing, but Sol Ring is one of the most unbalanced cards still in use. The fact that it immediately gives you back more mana than it cost is huge, and it effectively puts you ahead two turns. So be sure to use it!

The other thing that can be hard to see at first is the usefulness of any card that says "draw a card" on it. Some spells are obviously meant for drawing a lot of cards, but often just having a card replace itself is great. So I added some enchantments that draw you a card when you cast them like Rune of Mortality and Scourgemark. Scourgemark in particular can seem like it does basically nothing, just +1/+0, but what you really want it for is to trigger all your constellation effects and then give you another card. Cards like Phyrexian Rager are the same way. Their use is to advance your board state without sacrificing the number of cards you have in hand. In the same spirit, Odunos River Trawler and Master Skald can help you get back important pieces that your opponent deals with, and then they stick around as bodies to enchant.

Crippling Blight and Dead Weight look like generally weak cards, but not only do they take out a lot of useful utility creatures, they are cheap ways to trigger constellation effects and add to devotion for Gray Merchant of Asphodel.

The hardest cut was probably the angels, since you could also have added Firja's Retribution and leaned more in that direction, but that's up to you. They're fine enchantment targets, so maybe cut Grey Merchant or Heliod's Emissary instead.

https://deckstats.net/decks/152524/2061511-lifegain-deck-recommendations

Looking forward, you could make the deck more consistent just by getting more copies of key cards. For example, 4 copies of Rune of Mortality would be great for card draw, and that would make Runed Crown more appealing (even moreso if you got some other rune cards). Or 4 copies of Eternal Thirst for lifegain everywhere. And both of those would be way more fun with 4 copies of Grim Guardian on the board. I'd also look to see what enchantment creatures might be appealing replacements, something like Baleful Eidolon or Doomwake Giant. Check out Blightcaster too, for more enchantment fun. One strategy for finding cards that work well together is to look at cards from the same set or nearby sets, since they were designed to play in the same environment. You can do a Gatherer search by expansion, so you can see, for example, all the Theros cards for enchantment support.

Hope that helps!

39

Deck Reviews / Re: life deck (first deck i've made)

« on: May 10, 2021, 06:40:00 pm »

Hi! Honestly, if this is your first deck, it's better than my first decks were. The reality of the game is that it can be hard to have all the "right" cards for a strategy from the beginning. Everyone starts with the cards that they have. As you play more, you'll learn not only what the game needs, but also find a style that works for you.

In general, you want your deck to play as consistently as possible, so rather than have 1 of each card, you should play as many copies (or similar effects) as you can. In this case, if you wanted to focus on Exquisite Blood, it would be good to have 3 or 4 copies. It's common, though, for a deck not to be perfect from the beginning, and you'll swap out cards for better cards as you get them. If your collection isn't huge yet, it's okay for it to be a work in progress with placeholder cards (as long as you're not worried too much about losing a lot at first).

In the case of this deck, there are a few different strategies that are in play. There's a lifegain theme, and some stuff with +1/+1 counters, and cards that trigger from enchantments. To be more consistent, you could focus on one of those and swap in more cards that support that strategy. For example, if you want to use constellation, you should have as many enchantments to play as possible; otherwise, you could cut the entire suite of constellation cards to make room for more lifegain payoff cards. Obviously, this will be limited by what you have, but you can slowly swap them out 1 for 1 as you get more cards and your deck will tighten up a lot.

One way to find the cards you need is to use Gatherer's advanced search to look for card text that matches what you're trying to do (https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Advanced.aspx). Since you are doing a life-gain theme, you could use the text from a card like Marauding Blight-Priest to find similar triggers. Just drop the words "whenever you gain life" in the rule text search, and you get all the cards with that phrase (https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&text=+[%22whenever%20you%20gain%20life%22]). Just a note, life gain can feel good at first because it feels like getting ahead, but you'll need some strategy for getting your opponent's to 0. So look for cards that use life as a resource like Aetherflux Reservoir or Greed, or that activate directly off life gain like Sanguine Bond or Defiant Bloodlord.

Just remember, it's a process.

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Commander Discussion / Re: How much card draw do you use?

« on: May 08, 2021, 09:38:33 pm »

This was actually a lot more nuanced than I expected when I went to count. I also like to tailor my draw to what the rest of the deck is doing (rather than rely on generally good pieces), so I had to adjust for what counted as "draw" for the purposes of the specific deck. For example, reanimator decks end up treating the graveyard like a bigger hand, so mill is basically draw there. Cards like Aegar, the Freezing Flame and Gilt-Leaf Archdruid are actual draw, but depend heavily on having built the deck around their presence. And ramp spells feel a lot like draw spells in Tatyova, Benthic Druid but probably shouldn't count even there. I guess for me, "draw" is whatever leaves me with access to more of my deck, so Nyx Weaver or Vanish into Memory can work a lot like draw in some decks but just don't in others.

On cantrips, some decks want overall card advantage (okay, most), but some just want to keep hitting triggers, and cantrips are the "spend money to make money" approach to refueling. They won't put you ahead, but they can keep you active without sacrificing advantage. But only as long as the deck wanted to cast them anyway, e.g. Shadow Rift and Slip through Space, but probably never just Opt.

Anyway, some of my numbers:

Adeliz, the Cinder Wind - 15
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - 19
Tatyova, Benthic Druid - 11
Zada, Hedron Grinder - 8
Purraj of Urborg (it's okay to laugh) - 12
Doran, the Siege Tower - 10
Nicol Bolas - 12

Looks like I prefer around 12, and I should probably run more in Zada and not rely on shenanigans. I agree that the more complex strategies require more draw to be consistent. I'm curious to know how people feel the "build around" draw like mill in reanimator or tribal-based draw compares to straightforward draw like Harmonize and Treasure Cruise.

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Commander Discussion / Re: "Over-optimizing" a deck

« on: May 01, 2021, 07:37:01 pm »

Some people in my playgroup don't mind playing against my stronger decks, while others feel that the power gap is a bit too much and have let me know. This is why I am a bit conflicted about taking them out.

You're right about the "arms race", and it kinda happened. A fiend in my playgroup has built a budget Chulane deck (still very strong even on a budget!) that he takes out when I play my Xenagos for example, and it can definitely match the power level. However some other people in the playgroup just don't have so many cards/decks, or don't want to spend the money required for this kind of "arms race", or maybe they just prefer to play battlecruiser games.

Ah. Yeah, even a little bit of feedback like that would kill the fun for me too. That's a crap situation. And you don't want to create a scenario where you price someone out of playing. At least it lets your friend play his Chulane sometimes, I guess. But I don't know if more Chulane is ever really an "upside".

This whole conversation is giving me a lot of empathy for my friend who wins all the time. I'm going to go check on him.

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Commander Discussion / Re: "Over-optimizing" a deck

« on: April 30, 2021, 07:52:11 pm »

I was just wondering, have you gotten feedback from your group that it's not fun to play against your favorite deck? A lot of the suggestions seem to be about not playing or building to win, and that makes sense. All things being equal, any player is going to lose 75% of the games they sit down at (assuming four players), so while we are all trying to do well in some way, we know that it's just not reasonable to base fun on always winning.

It sounds like you make plenty of deckbuilding choices that understand that, but this one deck is a real winner. Is that so bad? It's good to read the table and want everyone to have fun, but could there be space in there for "fun" to include you playing the deck you put work into? Getting stomped game after game isn't fun, but I don't mind if someone wipes the floor with me from time to time. Maybe your group won't mind not playing to win for a minute while you do cool stuff. I mean, you're entitled to your 25%, right? It sounds like they would be short games anyway 

Also, playing it more regularly (letting it be an expectable part of your meta) might inspire them to build against it and raise their overall level. My group has gone through a few "arms races" like this, and we're usually better off after (except the last one, when our lowest-power player showed up with Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, that one sucked).

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Commander Discussion / Re: "Over-optimizing" a deck

« on: April 29, 2021, 10:00:43 pm »

I've also run into this situation. Keeping lower powered decks handy or building around sub-optimal tribes/strategies are good ways to manage the overall balance with your meta, but I know what you mean about falling in love with a deck and then pushing it into a higher tier through constant fiddling. (I built a druid tribal deck for low-power fun, but then they printed Tatyova and things started to get... simic. I drew the line at Chulane.)

I think the best strategy that my group found to address this was, as others mentioned, using our collections to upgrade other people's decks. If your meta isn't cutthroat and your deck is just good through love, then the other players probably aren't super interested in the pay-to-get-good angle. Most of the power difference in my playgroup comes down to card availability, which depends a lot on how long someone has been playing and how much disposable income they have. A couple of us in the group have been playing since the 90s so we have more cards than we could ever use. We've already made the decks we want to make out of them, so all that leftover power is just sitting in a box. So we often let newer players build from our collections and we offer to upgrade them with our better cards (obviously, we keep back whatever we plan to use ourselves). But just giving them an extra Sol Ring to work with or swapping out a Cancel for a Counterspell can set them on track to honing a deck.

It's definitely not a solution for all groups, and I probably wouldn't do it if we weren't all friends. But that might be a way to help them get at least one deck up to that higher level.

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Commander Deck Reviews / Re: Extus: Trying to fit spellslinger & aristocrats together, please help

« on: April 22, 2021, 09:24:01 am »

I played with the idea of building Extus, but I couldn't think of a way to do it that wasn't just some good cards without any coherence. I love the aristocrats angle, and it's a cool challenge to build around.

With everything going on, the big competition is between the spellslinger payoffs, the death payoffs, and the sac outlets. I would personally try to lean away from artifacts and enchantments here (even though they're generally better?) when a spell will do. So maybe no Skullclamp, Goblin Bombardment, or Bastion of Remembrance, and instead focus on the Altar's Reap effects for sac-draw, and creature-based death payoffs like Blood Artist (if you were going to rely on spells for saccing, then you could augment your Blood Artist damage with Guttersnipe effects so you hurt opponents every time you breath). Burnt Offering, Infernal Plunge, and even Path to Exile go with Culling the Weak to trade tokens for mana. You could swap Path with Dire Tactics and you'd gain versatility without sacrificing a removal slot. Battle Hymn doesn't sac a creature, but it would be great with a board full of tokens. For repeatable sac outlets, Carrion Feeder, Corpse Blockade, or Sadistic Hypnotist could replace Skullclamp and Goblin Bombardment, and you can return them with Extus if they get removed.

I don't know if you want to go down this road, but red can be decent at recurring spells with creatures like Dreadhorde Arcanist, Wildfire Eternal, Wildfire Devils, Backdraft Hellkite, and Charmbreaker Devils. But those are getting away from cheap creatures. Shreds of Sanity could help too.

For the tokens, I like the Young Pyromancer method, and you could add Blaze Commando to your current package. For more token spells, Triplicate Spirits can convoke off your tokens, and Goblin Wizardry makes tokens with prowess, which... might matter? I know I JUST said I'd cut permanents, but Goblinslide can add tokens to all your spells. I feel like that's just a lateral move from what you've already going on, though, just a different ratio of payoffs that you probably already looked at.

Anyway, I hear you. Balancing it all is going to be the hardest part. But the important thing is that Worthy Cause is getting the love it deserves.

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Deck Comments / Re: No Nut Commander - Comments

« on: March 15, 2021, 06:10:49 pm »

Acornelia has a green activated ability so she has a golgari color identity. I mean, she's not legal for other reasons, but I think the deck is good from a color perspective.

I love it when playgroups are cool with using cards from Un- sets. You need to vet every one, but there's some fun stuff in there.