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Commander Deck Reviews / Lets talk about Dungeons!
« am: März 16, 2024, 04:07:49 Nachmittag »
I have been having a lot of fun with this deck at my LGS during the weekly competitive EDH night and am interested in fine-tuning and finding more efficient ways to cruise through dungeons. For anyone who hasn't tried out the dungeon theme, it's a blast, it's versatile, and available in every color!
https://deckstats.net/decks/172156/2191319-dungeon-harvest/en
Decks I face: The LGS meta where I play ranges from upgraded precons to at/near cEDH, with the majority of competition being experienced deck-builders who each have at least one turn six or earlier deck. The main house rules are: no mass land destruction and no infinite combos until turn 6. My deck wins around 1/10 of the games outright, and takes out 1 or 2 opponents in 4/10 games. In a given game, player/s commonly attempt an infinite combo-win on the sixth turn about 50% of the time, with only about 10% of those attempts resulting in a win, due to interaction. Interaction is mostly targeted removal by exile and counter-spells, followed by board wipes. The vast majority of the opponents are also open to diplomacy (which thankfully has made my commander choice less of an issue and stretches the games out to 8-10 turns on average).
About the deck:
Mana base: The first thing those interested in providing advice for my deck might notice is the abundance of tri-color lands I'm running. I am open to changing that (although mana is rarely an issue surprisingly!) . My choice to run all the tri-color lands is due to frustrations with previously not having the color I need when I need it. I found it to be a less efficient method to run more basics and leave space for tutors like Three Visits. I also didn't want to commit to spending more money for fetch lands at this time (what am I waiting for, right?) What I have found is that by turn six, I am never lacking a needed color, so at the moment I am satisfied with the mana base. This may also be due to the dungeons providing the means to search for basics or make treasures, and Dockside Extortionist being such a beast in a flicker deck!
Strategy: The goal is getting to the final room of dungeons as many times as possible, especially the ones that net a creature or free spell, and then going infinite with dungeon triggers. When the deck preforms as intended, I can go through a dungeon 2-3 times in one turn, which usually results in going infinite if unchecked. The nice thing is that I don't need my commander in play for that to happen. In previous versions, I ran Hateflayer and Paradise Mantle, or Etali, Primal Conqueror, as finishers, but found that they weren't consistent or reliable. So, I am focusing more on just clearing dungeons to get infinite mana enablers on the board, so I can dig through my deck to get the win-cons out, or deal infinite damage to players. Diplomacy often plays a big role. Letting someone get an attack through to take the Initiative from me so they can get a land in exchange for peace for a few rounds, or using Kenrith, the Returned King to keep them alive for a turn or whatever, is just plain fun and advantageous. Alternatively, many players have no interest in taking the Initiative from me because it is one more thing for them to keep track of, and it in turn makes them a target to other players who want it. Most of the time if opponents want the Initiative, it is only for the free land, and they very rarely get to the final room.
As you can probably tell by now, the initiative dungeon, or Undercity, is my favorite one. When entering the Undercity for the first time, My typical path after the first room is Scry 2, hardly ever choosing the +1+1 counters. The next room choice is all diplomacy. At times, I will choose the 'Goad' option and mean it, if there is a particularly nasty creature in play. What I usually do is threaten to goad a threat, but choose the treasure. This secures a sort of unofficial peace with the owner of the threat, but shows the rest of the players that I had considered it. (For example, everyone in the playgroup with white in their decks runs Drannith Magistrate, and there seems to be one in play almost every game. I will mention that maybe I should goad it, act like its a hard decision, but choose the treasure. I don't really need my commander out usually, and this makes another opponent spend their own removal.) Choosing the treasure token unfortunately means I won't get the card draw room, but its nice to have that extra mana for the next turn or for bluffing. The final room is the big payoff and from there my strategy is really developed. At that point I will have a good indication of what I need for setting up infinite mana or flicker, both with the goal of finishing the dungeon again as fast as possible. Like stated above, If this deck is set up to go through 2 or more dungeons in a single turn, there is a good chance that it can be continued infinitely. If I do not get into the Undercity as my first dungeon, I will typically start in Lost Mine of Phandelver, as it is the shortest one. Of course, board conditions dictate, but I rarely use the Tomb of Annihilation dungeon.
The things I tutor for most often:
Creatures:
Mana needs: Dockside Extortionist, Faeburrow Elder
Cost reducers: Agatha of the Vile Cauldron or Zirda, the Dawnwaker
Trigger enhancers: Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines, Emiel the Blessed or Eldrazi Displacer
Dungeon delvers: Radiant Solar, Undermountain Adventurer, White Plume Adventurer, Seasoned Dungeoneer, Caves of Chaos Adventurer.
Interaction: Orcish Bowmasters, Trostani, Three Whispers, Hopeful Initiate
When tutoring for artifacts or enchantments, it really depends on what's in play at the time, and I don't have any specific go-to's, other than Sylvan Library or Extraordinary Journey, for card-draw.
What Next?: What I am looking for is some input on cards with lower mana values that enhance the strategy of clearing dungeons, or cards that add additional effects at similar mana cost. For example, I recently took out Conjurer's Closet and replaced it with Thassa, Deep Dwelling. She has the same effect for one less mana (yes, I have to pay blue to cast her, but that hasn't been a problem). She has indestructible. She has the added effect of tapping a creature, and although 3U can be steep, I usually can do this for a reduced cost. The only downside is that I will hardly ever have the loyalty to make her a creature, but that's not what I need her for anyway.
I also thought about trying to capitalize on initiative by getting extra upkeeps. I currently run Paradox Haze and used to run The Ninth Doctor as well, but didn't like that I had to attack with him or tap him somehow so I could get that trigger at upkeep. The cards in the maybe-board show the history of how this deck has changed over time, and are cards I haven't determined to cut permanently. I want to replaced Osgiliath, Fallen Capital (Kor Haven) with a different land, but I don't have any ideas. I do want it to be a land that can tap for colorless in addition to it's other abilities, as I want to have a significant number of colorless mana sources to justify having Eldrazi Displacer in the deck. I am looking to add Sarevok's Tome, seems like a legit card.
EDIT: I also have recently added Extraordinary Journey. I felt like it could be used for a variety of purposes; removal, a less direct way to flicker, and maybe some infinite loops if the right cards are out. It would certainly be funny to exile a bunch of stuff while someone has a Drannith Magistrate out!
What do ya think!?
https://deckstats.net/decks/172156/2191319-dungeon-harvest/en
Decks I face: The LGS meta where I play ranges from upgraded precons to at/near cEDH, with the majority of competition being experienced deck-builders who each have at least one turn six or earlier deck. The main house rules are: no mass land destruction and no infinite combos until turn 6. My deck wins around 1/10 of the games outright, and takes out 1 or 2 opponents in 4/10 games. In a given game, player/s commonly attempt an infinite combo-win on the sixth turn about 50% of the time, with only about 10% of those attempts resulting in a win, due to interaction. Interaction is mostly targeted removal by exile and counter-spells, followed by board wipes. The vast majority of the opponents are also open to diplomacy (which thankfully has made my commander choice less of an issue and stretches the games out to 8-10 turns on average).
About the deck:
Mana base: The first thing those interested in providing advice for my deck might notice is the abundance of tri-color lands I'm running. I am open to changing that (although mana is rarely an issue surprisingly!) . My choice to run all the tri-color lands is due to frustrations with previously not having the color I need when I need it. I found it to be a less efficient method to run more basics and leave space for tutors like Three Visits. I also didn't want to commit to spending more money for fetch lands at this time (what am I waiting for, right?) What I have found is that by turn six, I am never lacking a needed color, so at the moment I am satisfied with the mana base. This may also be due to the dungeons providing the means to search for basics or make treasures, and Dockside Extortionist being such a beast in a flicker deck!
Strategy: The goal is getting to the final room of dungeons as many times as possible, especially the ones that net a creature or free spell, and then going infinite with dungeon triggers. When the deck preforms as intended, I can go through a dungeon 2-3 times in one turn, which usually results in going infinite if unchecked. The nice thing is that I don't need my commander in play for that to happen. In previous versions, I ran Hateflayer and Paradise Mantle, or Etali, Primal Conqueror, as finishers, but found that they weren't consistent or reliable. So, I am focusing more on just clearing dungeons to get infinite mana enablers on the board, so I can dig through my deck to get the win-cons out, or deal infinite damage to players. Diplomacy often plays a big role. Letting someone get an attack through to take the Initiative from me so they can get a land in exchange for peace for a few rounds, or using Kenrith, the Returned King to keep them alive for a turn or whatever, is just plain fun and advantageous. Alternatively, many players have no interest in taking the Initiative from me because it is one more thing for them to keep track of, and it in turn makes them a target to other players who want it. Most of the time if opponents want the Initiative, it is only for the free land, and they very rarely get to the final room.
As you can probably tell by now, the initiative dungeon, or Undercity, is my favorite one. When entering the Undercity for the first time, My typical path after the first room is Scry 2, hardly ever choosing the +1+1 counters. The next room choice is all diplomacy. At times, I will choose the 'Goad' option and mean it, if there is a particularly nasty creature in play. What I usually do is threaten to goad a threat, but choose the treasure. This secures a sort of unofficial peace with the owner of the threat, but shows the rest of the players that I had considered it. (For example, everyone in the playgroup with white in their decks runs Drannith Magistrate, and there seems to be one in play almost every game. I will mention that maybe I should goad it, act like its a hard decision, but choose the treasure. I don't really need my commander out usually, and this makes another opponent spend their own removal.) Choosing the treasure token unfortunately means I won't get the card draw room, but its nice to have that extra mana for the next turn or for bluffing. The final room is the big payoff and from there my strategy is really developed. At that point I will have a good indication of what I need for setting up infinite mana or flicker, both with the goal of finishing the dungeon again as fast as possible. Like stated above, If this deck is set up to go through 2 or more dungeons in a single turn, there is a good chance that it can be continued infinitely. If I do not get into the Undercity as my first dungeon, I will typically start in Lost Mine of Phandelver, as it is the shortest one. Of course, board conditions dictate, but I rarely use the Tomb of Annihilation dungeon.
The things I tutor for most often:
Creatures:
Mana needs: Dockside Extortionist, Faeburrow Elder
Cost reducers: Agatha of the Vile Cauldron or Zirda, the Dawnwaker
Trigger enhancers: Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines, Emiel the Blessed or Eldrazi Displacer
Dungeon delvers: Radiant Solar, Undermountain Adventurer, White Plume Adventurer, Seasoned Dungeoneer, Caves of Chaos Adventurer.
Interaction: Orcish Bowmasters, Trostani, Three Whispers, Hopeful Initiate
When tutoring for artifacts or enchantments, it really depends on what's in play at the time, and I don't have any specific go-to's, other than Sylvan Library or Extraordinary Journey, for card-draw.
What Next?: What I am looking for is some input on cards with lower mana values that enhance the strategy of clearing dungeons, or cards that add additional effects at similar mana cost. For example, I recently took out Conjurer's Closet and replaced it with Thassa, Deep Dwelling. She has the same effect for one less mana (yes, I have to pay blue to cast her, but that hasn't been a problem). She has indestructible. She has the added effect of tapping a creature, and although 3U can be steep, I usually can do this for a reduced cost. The only downside is that I will hardly ever have the loyalty to make her a creature, but that's not what I need her for anyway.
I also thought about trying to capitalize on initiative by getting extra upkeeps. I currently run Paradox Haze and used to run The Ninth Doctor as well, but didn't like that I had to attack with him or tap him somehow so I could get that trigger at upkeep. The cards in the maybe-board show the history of how this deck has changed over time, and are cards I haven't determined to cut permanently. I want to replaced Osgiliath, Fallen Capital (Kor Haven) with a different land, but I don't have any ideas. I do want it to be a land that can tap for colorless in addition to it's other abilities, as I want to have a significant number of colorless mana sources to justify having Eldrazi Displacer in the deck. I am looking to add Sarevok's Tome, seems like a legit card.
EDIT: I also have recently added Extraordinary Journey. I felt like it could be used for a variety of purposes; removal, a less direct way to flicker, and maybe some infinite loops if the right cards are out. It would certainly be funny to exile a bunch of stuff while someone has a Drannith Magistrate out!
What do ya think!?
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