Targeted Removal Showdown

[Morganator 2.0]

Hello Deckstats! I'm Rikkig...

... I'm Gardagig...

... And I'm Dargig, and we're the Shattergang Brothers!

Today we are hosting a contest between removal spells. Every commander deck wants them and there are lots to choose from, no matter what colours you're in.

We're going to decide once and for all which type of removal is best, in a fight, TO THE DEATH!

Actually this is going to be decided with a po...

TO THE DEATH!

Anyway... targeted removal boils down to three different options: you can use low-cost removal that only hits one target and one type of target, you can use single-target removal that hits multiple types of targets, or you can use removal that hits multiple cards at once.

What about boardwipes?

No.

Shut up.

This is why you died in the lore.

You're an inspiration for birth control.

A white crayon is more useful than you.

The village called, they want their idiot back.

You're not the dumbest goblin, but you better hope the other guy doesn't die.

... alright...

So no, we won't do boardwipes. This will only be a discussion about removal where you have to pick a target and aren't removing your own stuff. With that out of the way, let's look at our first team of fighters.



You know them and you love them, give it up for single-target-single-type-removal.

I think we should just call this "efficient" removal. It's easier to say.

The efficient removal then, is exactly that. They don't cost a lot of mana, and they are instant-speed, so they are perfect in a pinch.

Their are two downsides. First, they often give some benefit to your opponent. They gain life, or they get a token creature. Nothing major.

The real downside is that they can only hit one type of card. There will be times where you want to remove an artifact and all you have is creature removal. Not the greatest in that situation.

There is another thing we've forgotten to mention. Because of their low cost these spells are the ones used in competitive commander, or cEDH. These cards are perfect for interrupting combos, and still leave you with mana to spare. That's needed in a fast-paced game.

Hey because you get a land, would you consider Deathsprout efficient?

Oh my gosh no.

How are we related?

As an outlier, what is you opinion on intelligence?

You set the bar so low that it’s a tripping hazard.

If there was a contest for losers you would be 2nd.

I get the feeling that you think ribbed condoms taste like ribs.

You couldn’t pour water out of a boot with the instructions on the heel.

...

...

Ribbed condoms don't taste like ribs?



This next group is also single-target, but they are able to hit multiple card types. You know how you sometimes think to yourself "I need to remove that Grave Pact" and then you draw creature removal? Well if your deck is chock full of these bad boys that won't be a problem. Any removal spell will remove any permanent.

Some of these can hit lands as well. There are times where that's useful.

The downsides are, again, your opponent gets something out of it. A token, or a land, or some random permanent maybe. Death by a 3/3 beast token that was provided by you is the second worst way to die.

What's the worst way to die?

Failing your own Mana Crypt flip.

The other downside is one of two; either they cost a little more mana (like 3) or they are in multiple colours, so they're harder to fit in most decks. Sometimes both.

The higher cost part means that they're not as effective at stopping combos. Sure, they work, but 1 or 2 mana is often all you will have left by the end of your turn. Any more than that and you'll have to actively leave up mana.

Despite all of this, many of these cards are seen as EDH staples, and they'll be a part of many decks to come.



Last category, saving the best for last.

Why?

The contest hasn't started yet.

I thank you for being the low end of average.

Your birth certificate is an apology letter.

You’re not pretty enough to be this stupid.

Whoever told you to "just be yourself” shouldn’t be listened to.

Do you have a pen? Because you should get back to it before the farmer sees you’re missing.

...

Okay so, just the last category, the multi-targets. Single-target removal is inherently card disadvantage in commander. Because you have three opponents or more, trading one card for one card will put only one person behind, leaving the other opponents untouched.

If you remove multiple targets you can set multiple opponents back. That's value.

Some of these spells can hit lots of different types of permanents too. With the large variety of cards in commander, these are useful to have. But, as always...

There are downsides.

First, they are mostly multicolored. Mono-coloured decks don't have these as options, but they're used to not having options by now.

Second, these spells are the most expensive. Look at those mana costs! You're giving up your turn to cast Casualties of War.

And third, they are sorcery-speed for the most part. This means that they are not effective at stopping combos. While they can be used to slow down the combo setup, they are useless when an opponent is trying to win on their turn.

But still, the value? Unmatched. You knock everyone down a peg with this stuff. Ideal for multiplayer.


So, which one is your favorite? Do you like the efficient removal to get the job done?

Do you prefer removal that can target multiple card types so you can deal with anything that comes your way?

Or are removal spells that remove several permanents at once your favorite?

Was there something we forgot to mention? Be sure to discuss any points or examples that weren't mentioned. Argue about which type of removal you think is best. Then settle it with a vote. You decide the outcome of this showdown Deckstats!

Wait, this is happening on Deckstats?

I know right?

If they were a spice, they’d be flour.

They look like they drop common loot.

They are what the bottom of the barrel looks like.

Their deckbuilding skills are as bad as their breath.

If they were any more inbred they’d be a sandwich.

They have all the entertaining qualities of wilted lettuce.

They aren’t useless. We can still use them as a bad example.

They are like if Adam Sandler's career was a website.

I’d give them a piece of my mind if I though they could handle it.

Do you know what my favorite thing about Deckstats is? The log out button.

There is love without sex, there is sex without love, and then there is Deckstats, without either.

[Aetherium Slinky]

I've taken a liking to counterspells as a means to respond to big threats (mono)blue isn't equipped to answer most of the time. Something like Force of Will is really efficient at removing threats from the stack. That and temporarily bouncing things, like Chain of Vapor. Tucking is my favourite (think Aetherspouts). It's sometimes better if things don't end up in the grave.

[Bonethor]

Depends on the power level and what I can feasibly run in the deck based on colours and what the deck is trying to do.. that said I do prefer the more efficient (2 mana) multiple type answers when it's possible to run them, for example assassin's trophy, fracture and despark. They're often somehow narrower than their 3 mana cousins, and mostly require two colours but they're a nice compromise between speed and flexibility.

Creature removal is fine being narrow for the most part thanks to commanders mostly being creatures so the efficient cards are great there. I'll also happily play narrower/more expensive cards if they help my decks gameplan (artifact mutation in Wort, the Raidmother or reality shift in Aminatou). Synergy is all.

[The Golgari Guy]

First of all, I agree with Bonethor on the fact that synergy is everything. For example, Foundation Breaker is amazing in Meren since I can repeatedly bring it back from the graveyard, and it triggers stuff that cares about creatures dying.

In general, if I'm building high-power casual deck or cEDH decks, efficiency is everything. I want cheap spells, even if maybe they can hit a more restricted number of targets: Swords to Plowshares, Deadly Rollick, Chain of Vapor etc.

In casual EDH, I still value efficiency of course, but flexiblity becomes more important. I'm more than willing to pay a higher mana cost for a spell that can hit a higher range of targets: Beast Within, Generous Gift, Chaos Warp etc.

This is my philosphy in general. So I would say that my priorities for casual EDH are

1) Synergy
2) Flexibility
3) Efficiency

And I usually don't like spells that hit multiple target. In particular, I'd never play Decimate or Hex since (and many people don't realize this) you can't actually even cast them if you don't have all the targets.

For example, you cannot cast Decimate to destroy a land and an artifact: you also need a creature and an enchantment. This will mean that sometimes these spells will just end up stranded in your hand, which is terrible.

Also, usually you're not losing to multiple things, but to a single thing. Better to remove the one thing that's making you lose/stopping you from winning than paying more mana to blow up multiple things, making also more enemies at the table in the process.

[Morganator 2.0]

Damn, seems like next to no one prefers multi-target spells.

I have a preference to the efficient removal spells. I like being able to leave up mana to interact with my opponents, while still being able to do stuff on my turn. There's this weird kinda hump between 2 mana and 3 mana. I can pretty easily leave up one or two mana without problem, but 3 mana is harder. Unfortunately, a lot of removal that hits multiple types is 3 or more mana, with a few exceptions (like Abrade).

While I do sometimes use Beast Within and Chaos Warp removal, I always slot in my efficient removal first.

[CleanBelwas]

My favourite thing about this thread is the revelation that Ravnican goblins know what condoms are.

[anjinsan]

Damn, seems like next to no one prefers multi-target spells.

I do, but having been caught out by Decimate before, I know that pain all too well. I still put it in sometimes because it's very efficient when it does work, which is usually, but it's a risk.

I used to run Curtains' Call pretty much just as a staple, because two kills for 3 is a pretty great rate. I'm starting to question that now though because the second creature is usually less important a removal than the first, and also I just generally slot less creature-only removal when there are so many more flexible options available, or use a wipe. Also, I've been caught out by that before too when I only had one target.

On the other hand, you have Heliod's Intervention. This is a very flexible multi-target spell that I also almost consider a staple. Obviously the rate is pretty poor at X=1 but decent at 2-3 and whilst wipes are much cheaper at higher X, it's totally one-sided. Also, you can use it to gain life!

[ApothecaryGeist]

I like Decimate and Hex.  They give an excuse to blow up extra stuff.  "i HAD to target a land". 'i HAD to target 6 creatures."  With Casualties of War, I'M the jerk that chose to target your dual land.  With Decimate, I just have to pick something.