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Author Topic: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck  (Read 1308 times)

synthetic

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How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« on: December 14, 2016, 05:01:29 am »
So i have a friend that built a nasty deck based on Waste Not .  And has a series of cards that for you or everyone to discard and draw full hands like, Dark Deal, Wheel of Fate.  When this deck procs and gets rolling its a nightmare
I'm looking to create a deck to stop this.  I'm playing several concepts, but was wondering if anyone has come across a card that doesn't allow a player or all players to discard cards?  I'm working with some counter spells and some enchantment steals.  I am also open to suggestions.

synthetic

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2016, 05:02:21 am »
This is the deck...

https://deck.tk/9Koy6gBC

WWolfe

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2016, 06:53:57 am »
What colors are you running/looking to run? That'll give us a starting point to make suggestions.
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Discendo

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2016, 08:26:33 am »
Seems the only real way he gets threats on the board is through Waste Not. One option is to play straight out artifact enchantment removal - most people keep at least a few basic cards for this in sideboards and whatnot
  White
Spell - Erase
Creature - Felidar Cub / Kor Sanctifiers
  Green
Spell - Back to Nature, Natural State
Creature - Reclamation Sage
  Blue
Spell - Annul, Confiscate (might be really useful since he discards things as well), Aura Flux (really old card though)
Creature - ??
  Black
Spell - ??
Creature - Brain Maggot
  Red
Basically can't destroy enchantments by itself :(
  Colorless
Nevinyrral's Disk, Ratchet Bomb, Oblivion Stone (a bit slow but its a complete board wipe when it goes off)

WWolfe

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2016, 05:54:15 pm »
On top of the enchantment removal that Discendo mentioned...

Leyline of Sanctity or Aegis of the Gods would stop the spells that specifically target you for discard or draw.

Nevermore would hit him hard if you named Waste Not.

Blood Moon would for the most part stop him from casting 12 of his cards and from casting the Toil half of the four Toil//Trouble for the most part since the majority of his lands are non-basics.

He has no enchantment removal so those would hit him hard.

You could also focus your deck around one of the graveyard strategies. Dredge would benefit from the extra drawing and the discarding he's making you do. Scavenge would make what creatures you do get out bigger. Delve would allow you to cast what you can keep in your hand for less by exiling what he's made you discard.

If you're not playing modern and it's more of kitchen table games you're playing then Circular Logic would give you a counter spell that benefits from your graveyard being deep or Deathrite Shaman would really make him pay for cards in any graveyard. Back to Basics would hit him hard with 2/3's of his lands being nonbasics. Those three aren't legal in Modern though if you're playing Modern they won't help.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 03:57:06 am by WWolfe »
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synthetic

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2016, 08:34:57 pm »
thanks a ton.  I haven't set on what color/s i'm gonna focus on. Ive been looking at various cards and counter ideas and think i'll build from there... I have found some of those cards mentioned, but you guys brought up some good suggestions and work arounds, as well as some cards i haven't come across while researching... Thanks for the tips. 

as i pull some fuller concepts together i'll let you know how it goes.... :)

Firegriff

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2016, 02:23:10 am »
There is also Nephalia Academy to stop discard in its tracks... Or Fate Unraveller/Kederekt Parasite to punish your opponent's drawing cards.

synthetic

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2016, 05:01:01 am »
would Nephalia Academy still cause the cards that are put back on the deck still considered a discard?  ie, would it proc waste not?

Firegriff

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2016, 05:12:20 am »
I donct believe that it would.  The wording says "instead of", so I take that to mean that Waste Not would not trigger since the card is no longerhits the graveyard.  Anyone else know for certain?

synthetic

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2016, 05:27:56 am »

7/13/2016   In a Magic game, cards are discarded only from a player’s hand. Effects that put cards from a player’s library into that player’s graveyard do not cause those cards to be discarded.
7/13/2016   When you apply Nephalia Academy’s effect, the card was still discarded. Abilities that trigger when a card is discarded will still trigger.
7/13/2016   If a spell or ability an opponent controls causes you to make a choice and you choose to discard a card, Nephalia Academy’s ability will apply.
7/13/2016   If you discard a card with madness, you’ll choose whether to exile it or put it on top of your library. If you put it on top of your library, you can’t cast it using madness.


that was almost perfect... still good though...

KouriNick

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2016, 09:21:22 pm »
Another option that's pretty resilient to discard is Green/White creature decks. Between Obstinate Baloth, Loxodon Smiter, Dodecapod, and Wilt-Leaf Liege, you could build your own army off his discard that would be WAY bigger than his Waste Not army. Plus Green/White gives access to Qasali Pridemage, which shuts down Waste Not on it's own. Not to mention the multitude of other great cards in that color combo (Fleecemane Lion, Voice of Resurgence, Dryad Militant, Scavenging Ooze, and Dromoka's Command).

The other nice thing about Selesnya (Green/White) colors is that it's just a powerful deck, even when your opponent doesn't use discard. 3 mana for a 4/4 can't be countered is about as good a rate as can be asked for, and Pridemage is so versatile he can be main-decked without concern. Plus there's endless room to grow is you wanted to really invest in the deck. Tarmogoyf and Noble Heirarch are among the best cards in Modern, and both would slot beautifully into a deck like this, but neither is necessary to make a truly powerful and fun deck!

Just something to think about :)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 05:37:34 pm by KouriNick »
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WWolfe

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2016, 12:05:39 am »
Man I miss my old Selensya deck. You've kinda made me want to put it back together KouriNick.

 ;D
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KouriNick

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2016, 12:35:48 am »
Man I miss my old Selensya deck. You've kinda made me want to put it back together KouriNick.

 ;D

Selesnya is so under-rated. It has so much raw individual card power, and thanks to Selfless Spirit it's finally resilient to board wipes. It just has answers to everything. I kind of want to put the deck back together now too.
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WWolfe

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Re: How to stop a "Waste Not" based deck
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2016, 06:22:48 am »
Yup, starting to piece mine back together.  ;D

Back on topic- while they don't fit with the battling Waste Not theme but there are certainly worse one drops than Experiment One & Sunblade Elf.
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