Bear Tribal vs. Sliver Tribal

[KB2MCCLOUD]

I was talking to a friend a while back who runs a really nice Sliver deck, about other tribes that might be able to take down Slivers. As we all know, Slivers are arguably one of, if not the most powerful tribe in EDH. That's not to say they are unbeatable but I have yet to come across a well built sliver deck with a losing record.

At the time, I was working on building a Bear Tribal deck for my son Barrett, who we call Bear for short. I though it was clever. So as we were talking about ideas for the bear deck he mentioned that he has never put his sliver deck up against Bear Tribal. He thinks that Bear Tribal might be a tribe to give Slivers a run for their money.

What do you guys think? Does Bear Tribal have the power and card support to take on Slivers in a head to head match-up?       

[WWolfe]

I don't think so. There's only 23 bears in MTG, 8 of which are vanilla 2/2 creatures. Of the other 15, almost none of them do anything to support each other. They all have independent abilities or abilities simply like Flash or Soulbound. One reduces the cost of creatures power 4 or greater which no bear has. There's also no lords like other tribes have (Cemetery Reaper for zombies, etc.).

Bears just aren't synergistic with each other in a way that a tribal deck is something that I could see standing up to a well built Sliver deck.

[KB2MCCLOUD]

I don't think so. There's only 23 bears in MTG, 8 of which are vanilla 2/2 creatures. Of the other 15, almost none of them do anything to support each other. They all have independent abilities or abilities simply like Flash or Soulbound. One reduces the cost of creatures power 4 or greater which no bear has. There's also no lords like other tribes have (Cemetery Reaper for zombies, etc.).

Bears just aren't synergistic with each other in a way that a tribal deck is something that I could see standing up to a well built Sliver deck.

I think the only way it could work is if you run Ayula, Queen Among Bears and start the game with a god hand. Even with Muraganda Petroglyphs on the battle field to amp up some of your generic 2/2 bears, it might be too little too late. I think beating slivers with a bear tribal deck might be more luck than deck capability.

In terms of Tribal Decks, do you think there is anything that would be able to stand up to Slivers? or are they just too fast and too powerful?   

[MonteTribal]

Probably not.
Outside of Ayula, Queen Among Bears, there are no real "bears matter" cards. Slivers have lords, destruction, protection, evasion, card advantage, and a soup of keywords.

You can have a solid bear EDH deck, with plenty of flavorful cards. But slivers would probably win over half the time

[WWolfe]

I don't think so. There's only 23 bears in MTG, 8 of which are vanilla 2/2 creatures. Of the other 15, almost none of them do anything to support each other. They all have independent abilities or abilities simply like Flash or Soulbound. One reduces the cost of creatures power 4 or greater which no bear has. There's also no lords like other tribes have (Cemetery Reaper for zombies, etc.).

Bears just aren't synergistic with each other in a way that a tribal deck is something that I could see standing up to a well built Sliver deck.

I think the only way it could work is if you run Ayula, Queen Among Bears and start the game with a god hand. Even with Muraganda Petroglyphs on the battle field to amp up some of your generic 2/2 bears, it might be too little too late. I think beating slivers with a bear tribal deck might be more luck than deck capability.

In terms of Tribal Decks, do you think there is anything that would be able to stand up to Slivers? or are they just too fast and too powerful?   

A well built Edgar Markov vampire deck could beat Slivers by outpacing it if it was fast enough. I'm sure there's probably some others that could give it a run for it's money but it would have to be well built in a way that packed enough answers/removal to keep the Slivers in check.

[KB2MCCLOUD]

Probably not.
Outside of Ayula, Queen Among Bears, there are no real "bears matter" cards. Slivers have lords, destruction, protection, evasion, card advantage, and a soup of keywords.

You can have a solid bear EDH deck, with plenty of flavorful cards. But slivers would probably win over half the time

Poor Bears! Forgotten and Unloved.

I do really enjoy my bear deck and it does pack a punch but its just as you say, Slivers would and do win most of the time.

[Morganator 2.0]

Alright... Everybody stop for a second.

A friend of mine has actually made a very good Ayula, Queen Among Bears deck, and it regularly goes up against The First Sliver. If Ayula can get enough counters on her, she can fight off the more troublesome slivers, long enough to get her own cloudstone curio combo going (or something else).

There are enough instant-speed ways to make bears like Ayula's Influence and Bearscape that she can make an effective responsive deck.

He hasn't updated his list in a long time, but it has become a force to be reckoned with.

[CleanBelwas]

I was just about to echo what Morganator said.

Bears are objectively a weaker tribe than slivers, but Ayula is surprisingly strong. That fight ability is real. If you can get yourself a way to make bears consistently every turn, and they do exist, that deck can do work.

The point of the Ayula deck is to fight. Fight often and fight well. Keep the board clear of problems. You aren't looking to amass a large amount of bears and go toe to toe because you'll probably lose. Bears suck. Ayula does not. You're fighting everything and punching in with a massive Ayula. Unless you've got a hoof. Then you might get away with a bear army.

Ayula is art imitating life. A bear who wants a fight will fuck you up.

[KB2MCCLOUD]

I was just about to echo what Morganator said.

Bears are objectively a weaker tribe than slivers, but Ayula is surprisingly strong. That fight ability is real. If you can get yourself a way to make bears consistently every turn, and they do exist, that deck can do work.

The point of the Ayula deck is to fight. Fight often and fight well. Keep the board clear of problems. You aren't looking to amass a large amount of bears and go toe to toe because you'll probably lose. Bears suck. Ayula does not. You're fighting everything and punching in with a massive Ayula. Unless you've got a hoof. Then you might get away with a bear army.

Ayula is art imitating life. A bear who wants a fight will fuck you up.

I know from experience that my Ayula deck is formidable and when it works it is very effective. I think one of the issues I have going up against slivers is most players that run well built sliver decks spare no expense! I spent just under $300 on my Ayula deck vs. my friend's sliver deck is pushing north of $1k. So it's understandable that a sliver deck such as his would win most of the time. It would be a little disappointing if you spent that kind of money and repeatedly got thumped by a "budget" deck.

If I were to truly optimize my Ayula deck and spare no expense it might be a little more on point. I just don't think that with the limited cards currently available to support bears, Ayula would be able to consistently win against Slivers.
   

[CleanBelwas]

Yea I think if both decks were tuned to peak performance, slivers would still come off best most of the time. Mono green struggles to draw cards and tutor for non-creatures compared to a tuned 5 colour deck. While a tuned Ayula deck is definitely formidable, it still requires a bit of luck with drawing into the right start to put up a proper fight.

When you get lucky though and everything comes together, the Ayula deck is fun as hell.

[Morganator 2.0]

I just don't think that with the limited cards currently available to support bears, Ayula would be able to consistently win against Slivers.

Don't think of it as support for bears. Ayula is interactive. If you can strategically get rid of the stronger Slivers, or attack the mana base (Collector Ouphe). You'll bring the deck down to size, long enough for you to set up your game-winning combo.

[KB2MCCLOUD]

I just don't think that with the limited cards currently available to support bears, Ayula would be able to consistently win against Slivers.

Don't think of it as support for bears. Ayula is interactive. If you can strategically get rid of the stronger Slivers, or attack the mana base (Collector Ouphe). You'll bring the deck down to size, long enough for you to set up your game-winning combo.

 

[Slyvester12]

I also think a well-built Ayula deck can put up a good fight. Other tribes that can work against slivers are elves and changelings (Reaper King). Like Morganator said, running stax against The First Sliver makes the matchup a lot more manageable. Things like Collector Ouphe, Null Rod, Mana Web, Hall of Gemstone, etc... Meekstone would be funny if you could consistently untap Ayula.