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Author Topic: stack problems  (Read 3495 times)

Luca_

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stack problems
« on: March 13, 2016, 06:30:46 pm »
Yesterday I played against an uw control. He had an attacking Vendilion Clique and a Wall of Omens into play, I cast a Condemn and he answered casting Restoration Angel. Resto Angel resolved and then I cast a second Condemn whit Restoration Angel's trigger on the stack.
What does now happen? I supposed that he loses his vendilion and also the Restoration Angel's trigger but he said that he could target his Wall of Omens to draw a card, who was right there?

Thank you and sorry for my bad english  :P

Mostlynotgay

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016, 07:02:40 pm »
condemn
Restoration's trigger
Condemn
Clique

He doesn't lose the Angels trigger because the trigger of a permanent exists independent of the permanent. So you condemn his angel, but the etb (enter the battlefield) trigger still exists.

He CAN target his wall, which will exile and bring it back (or "blink" it). So it will, essentially, leave the battlefield and come back, allowing the card draw.
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Luca_

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2016, 07:35:02 pm »
I cast also the second condemn targeting the clique

robort

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2016, 07:51:03 pm »
Wall of Omens doesn't do or is anything. Has to resolve first before anything happens, at this point omens is only cast.
Only thing omen is just a creature on the stack. Since wall was first cast, it will be the last thing to happen. But since it's his attack phase, wall would allready be in play, so card be drawn allready.

So we have attack phase, players may cast spells and activate abilities.
Declare attackers which is Vendilion Click, players may cast spells and activate abilities
Active player has priority but passes to you, you cast condemn and pass priority
he cast restoration angel, passes back priority , another condemn by you.

So last spell cast goes first and first spell goes last.
condemn
restoration angel
condemn

condemn has a target in attacking creature
restoration angel has a target in the wall and player draws a card, wall left and entered field
or target a creature of your if any
2nd condemn no target so it fizzles

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Jace27

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2016, 07:56:40 pm »
Did the UW control player change his target after you cast the second condemn?
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robort

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2016, 08:02:30 pm »
Did the UW control player change his target after you cast the second condemn?

Great point, I didn't think about that aspect.
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Luca_

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2016, 08:35:09 pm »
Did the UW control player change his target after you cast the second condemn?

can the targets change whiout cards like spellskite? I thought that he had to decide the target as resto triggers.

Luca_

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 08:39:12 pm »
Wall of Omens doesn't do or is anything. Has to resolve first before anything happens, at this point omens is only cast.
Only thing omen is just a creature on the stack. Since wall was first cast, it will be the last thing to happen. But since it's his attack phase, wall would allready be in play, so card be drawn allready.

So we have attack phase, players may cast spells and activate abilities.
Declare attackers which is Vendilion Click, players may cast spells and activate abilities
Active player has priority but passes to you, you cast condemn and pass priority
he cast restoration angel, passes back priority , another condemn by you.

So last spell cast goes first and first spell goes last.
condemn
restoration angel
condemn

condemn has a target in attacking creature
restoration angel has a target in the wall and player draws a card, wall left and entered field
or target a creature of your if any
2nd condemn no target so it fizzles

Wall of Omes was already onto the battlefield 

Jace27

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2016, 08:44:59 pm »
I think he should have to decide as Restoration Angel's ability triggers. That's why I'm asking. I'm not sure it is legal to change the target of a spell in response to a card an opponent played. If he first chose to target Vendilion Clique, and after you played your second Condemn changed the target, I think he may have cheated. I'm not 100% certain I'm right because my knowledge of MTG rules is a little hazy. Correct me if I'm wrong ;) .
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robort

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2016, 09:03:07 pm »
I think he should have to decide as Restoration Angel's ability triggers. That's why I'm asking. I'm not sure it is legal to change the target of a spell in response to a card an opponent played. If he first chose to target Vendilion Clique, and after you played your second Condemn changed the target, I think he may have cheated. I'm not 100% certain I'm right because my knowledge of MTG rules is a little hazy. Correct me if I'm wrong ;) .

You're right on the money. Change the scenario to prove it, 2 attacking creatures. Condemn played and restoration angel.
Condemn picks a target and restoration then does. Condemn can't pick the other creature because restoration angel choose same target. As for cheating, heat of the moment and sure it wasn't intentional
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Luca_

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Re: stack problems
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2016, 09:28:50 pm »
Okay, thank you guys   ;D
Yes it probably  wasn't intentional, i'm asking only to learn  ;D