[Standard] B/W Control Looking for advice/suggestions

[Raavio]

B/W Control

This is my first go at brewing a competitive deck for standard. The general idea is to use so much removal that your opponent can't keep any creatures on the board. Keep it up until you can cast secure the wastes for 8 mana or ult a planeswalker. Any advice or suggestions would be very helpful. I'm not used to coming up with very competitive decks on my own.

[Manifestor]

Hi!

I'm not that experienced with B/W myself, but I do believe this build would struggle for consistency.

The first thing that comes to mind is that you'd probably be better of with a couple of more Lands in your deck. I usually play 26-27 lands in a Control deck, because you really don't want to miss a land-drop in early stages. I can't really see why you'd run Warped Landscape when you have no need for colorless mana. I think you'd be better of by replacing them with 2 more copies of Shambling Vent and possibly 1 copy of Blighted Fen since you might be able to pull the Sacrifice ability as you play a long and controlling game.

For the Planeswalkers, I believe the new Sorin will be a lot better than Ob Nixilis because it can also kill a Planeswalker, which will be quite important in the following Standard format I believe. Maybe try with 2/3 Sorin and 1 Ob Nixilis, might even want to cut the Ob completely because he becomes very vulnerable after you use his killing ability. Think about it, the soonest he'll come into play is turn 5 and if you - him, he'll be pretty easy do deal with for your opponent while he's only at 3. I'd also try to run Gideon, Ally of Zendikar. I think he'll get very good in the upcoming format because it will be a bit slower from the start so Gideon will be able to see more play and influence games more often.

Drana's Emissary looks a bit too slow for me so I doubt she'd be able to get lots of damage in, and besides, you don't really want to tap your mana in a control deck, you want them to be open for countering your opponent's moves on their turn. Also, it's a very bad draw and/or topdeck in mid-late stages. You'd really want to draw something like Sorin, Secure the Wastes of even a removal spell at that point. Or even a Gideon if you'd play him. (Which I really think you should because he's a win condition on his own as a 5/5 creature).
I'm not sure which low-cost B or W creature would replace her currently, but I think you don't even need to replace her with creatures. If anything, you should play an Archangel Avacyn or two because the card will be broken in control decks. It can do a lot of dirty work for you and is also a efficient attacking outlet if needed.

The removal in your deck is solid I believe. I'd try squeeze in a Planar Outburst so you have a board clear option if needed. Two copies of Languish also seem a bit overboard since it's a Sorcery and it's not that cheap to cast. And you do play 4 copies of Grasp of Darkness so I believe you could do with only 1 copy of Languish in your main and maybe side another copy or two. I'd probably even just side all of them though. Depends of what you expect your meta to play I guess.

Other than that you should be set I think. I hope these suggestions help you out a bit and I wish you lot's of success with the deck.

Ohh, just remembered, you might want to look into some hand control cards like Duress and Transgress the Mind. Might be worth it since you don't have much draw power, might at least disrupt your opponent's hand and make them play a bit slower. While also seeing what you'll have to deal with and when to do so, obviously.

Edit: Read the Bones might be worth testing since it gives you some draw power.

[Frimmel]

I think Ruinous Path would be a better choice than Languish although it is possible to go overboard on control and some other threat might be good in there considering all the other removal you have.

Oath of Gideon might be good in there speeding up the new Sorin.

I'm with Manifestor that the Warped Landscape feels like a questionable choice. Westvale Abbey or Evolving Wilds or more Shambling Vent or just more Plains and Swamps seems a better choice. You shouldn't need that as a hedge against getting color hosed.

[robort]

To much control and not enough creatures. 26 cards that are creature kill, way to many in a 60 card deck. 18 of those can only be played on your turn. Warped landscape is pointless, pay 2 to bring in a land when evolving wilds does it for less.

[Frimmel]

To much control and not enough creatures. 26 cards that are creature kill, way to many in a 60 card deck. 18 of those can only be played on your turn. Warped landscape is pointless, pay 2 to bring in a land when evolving wilds does it for less.

I don't think it is pointless. It comes in untapped and if your color situation is okay you don't "miss a land drop" with it while still having the option to "fix" if you have an issue.

It just seems to me that the option to "fix" won't come up that often and not using those can make sure it doesn't. This deck has a lot of two color symbol in the cost cards so I see the motivation for having some fixing.

[Raavio]

Thanks for all the help! The warped landscapes were there for two reasons: placeholders to see if they're going to spoil any new lands that are real good, and also to help trigger to the slaughter 's delirium if need be. Also I forgot about planar outburst so thanks for reminding me.

[Manifestor]

To much control and not enough creatures. 26 cards that are creature kill, way to many in a 60 card deck. 18 of those can only be played on your turn. Warped landscape is pointless, pay 2 to bring in a land when evolving wilds does it for less.

Well, Control usually plays very, very few creatures so I don't think he needs many more. But I would advise him to run Gideon as he act's as a perfect creature for the type of deck he wants to run.

[robort]

To much control and not enough creatures. 26 cards that are creature kill, way to many in a 60 card deck. 18 of those can only be played on your turn. Warped landscape is pointless, pay 2 to bring in a land when evolving wilds does it for less.

I don't think it is pointless. It comes in untapped and if your color situation is okay you don't "miss a land drop" with it while still having the option to "fix" if you have an issue.

It just seems to me that the option to "fix" won't come up that often and not using those can make sure it doesn't. This deck has a lot of two color symbol in the cost cards so I see the motivation for having some fixing.

In this deck it is pointless, no need for colorless for 0 color sitiuation. There is no color sitiuation to worry about.
Again waste 2 mana for no reason at all. So far in this set of Soi, there is absolutely no need for this land at all.
Even "if" It's used for delirium, plenty of other cards that work much better even evolving wilds. Evolving wilds instantly goes into the graveyard while warped landscape waits for 2 land or other mana producers. So go ahead, sit around and wait while I put stuff out.

[robort]

To much control and not enough creatures. 26 cards that are creature kill, way to many in a 60 card deck. 18 of those can only be played on your turn. Warped landscape is pointless, pay 2 to bring in a land when evolving wilds does it for less.

Well, Control usually plays very, very few creatures so I don't think he needs many more. But I would advise him to run Gideon as he act's as a perfect creature for the type of deck he wants to run.

To much control, and that's all he'd be doing is holding a bunch of cards in his hand.
Playing a tourney or even game day, time constraint needs to also be considered.
Mighty big diffrence from control to overkill. Not to mention the avg to cast is 3. Only casting on avg once
per turn from only turn 3-5. Turns 1-2 he could be possibly dealing with 3-4 creatures while only hoping to hit a languish?
He has answers but again, time constraint will hinder him because of establishing himself in much later rounds.

[Manifestor]

3-4 creatures in turns 1-2? Do we even play the same game? You cannot expect a scenario like this constantly in my opinion.
Sorry, I'm a bit of a beginner myself but even looking at past control lists that did good on big events, not a single one of them played more than 7 creatures. And they we're high drops too. And it's not like he has many options for 1 or 2 drops in a BW Control deck now that Seeker is out. Or am I missing something?

Edit: Well Jeskai does play a few more creature's, but that's about the only control deck to do so in my experience.

[Frimmel]

You can expect some "weenie" decks to get a bunch of small critters out fast. Goblin Glory Chaser or Lavastep Raider with Dragon Fodder on turn two. There's three.

[robort]

1st , I apologize and I ment turn 3 not turn 2. But as you can see that 3 creatures can be on
the field by turn 2. Your deck was made with nothing but creature control, 26 cards.
2nd which brings me here. The "meta" game control you speak of has more than creature control,
in thier decks. The main ones of course have jace, but these control have draw and delve with anticipate
for deck manipulation. Some of those cards will drop in the upcoming rotation.
3rd I mearly was trying to point out the math aspects of this game. Starting with 26 creature control
cards with an avg mana cost of 3. I will take 26 down to 16 for simplicity and with just 16 creature control
cards you have a 90% chance to have one of those in your starting hand. As we increase the number 16
to 26 your chances do increase greatly. Yet avg cost is 3, so on turn 3 is where you start by getting rid of 1
creature, So on turn 3, 4 and 5 on avg cost of 3 you can only do 1 thing. Which more than likely is getting
rid of at least 1 creature. I say at least because languish is possible to take out more.
Now being generous you have 4 Obs and 4 Sorin. Since they are a part of the 26 card creature control, what's
the plan to ultimate them? Using either middle ability makes the ultimate take longer. So turn 8,9 or 10 or higher?
This is what I meant by time constraint. Matches are 60 minutes, usually and avg is 20 minutes per match.
But back to math, you have with those 8 a 65% chance to have either opening hand. By turn 8 there is a 91%
to have either of those, are you still going to try to ultimate either after droping them turn 8?

4th before you say it, yes you have changed your deck.