New Banned List

[ladof]

New ban list announced:

Standard:

Emrakul, the Promised End
Smuggler's Copter
Reflector Mage

Modern:

Gitaxian Probe
Golgari Grave-Troll

Nitro surprised about GitProbe. Banning the focus of a block seems like poor planning to me, personally (Emrakul). Smuggler's Copter never seemed like a good idea, but I'm surprised about Reflector Mage.

[ladof]

Forgot to cite sources. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/january-9-2017-banned-and-restricted-announcement-2017-01-09

[mattador_actual]

I think the Reflector Mage ban is to keep WU flash under control, since with the banning of Emmy and looter scooter, it would be too powerful and/or have too great a share of the meta.

I don't much care for either Modern banning.  Gitaxian Probe has issues, but I think Fatal Push is a great answer to Infect, Death's Shadow, and UR Kiln Fiend.  It would've been nice to see how it played out.  So long Storm and YP-Delver variants.

I think Prized Amalgam was a bigger issue in Dredge than Golgari-Grave Troll, but we'll see (just make sure any data takes into consideration the increased GY hate since it's rise to power, not just the GGT ban).

I'm a bigger fan of unbans than banning though.  I'd love to see Preordain, Stoneforge Mystic, BBE, and maybe even Twin (along with an Exarch ban) come off the list. 

[Mostlynotgay]

I'd vote to ban all the 1CMC phyrexian mana cards. 

[Mnemosyne]

New ban list announced:

Standard:

Emrakul, the Promised End
Smuggler's Copter
Reflector Mage

My friend messaged me about this just a moment ago. I honestly thought he was joking at first. Then when I realised that he was serious, I became annoyed because now three of my standard decks are redundant. I had spent a lot of time adjusting them to my meta...

I honestly think that Smuggler's Copter should have been banned. I agree with that decision because the card is ubiquitous I've seen it in almost every FNM deck brought down, and the turn 2 plays with a 3/3 flyer on a Thraben Inspector gets annoying after a fashion.

Emrakul, and Reflector Mage are VERY situational cards. Just because it is annoying it doesn't mean that it is worth banning. Emrakul can be dealt with, much easier than its Modern variant. A (U) Ceremonious Rejection interaction can stop in coming down, albeit with the cast trigger on the stack, but any sorcery speed (Declaration in Stone) or even a Sinister Concoction at instant speed could kill it! Honestly, it is 'enabler' cards like Aetherworks Marvel and the broken E (energy) system that is the cause for concern.

Reflector Mage was used in Collected Company decks, and it wasn't banned. Even when it was Collected Company itself that was the reason why the deck was dominating the top 8 rankings. Just because Azorius Aggro is dominating again, doesn't mean that Reflector Mage is the sole reason for this. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar Thraben Inspector and Spell Queller are the reasons why this deck is doing so well, competitively. Why isn't Gideon be banned? It's a card that enables Smuggler's Copter to perform so well, with an instant 2/2 that crews a 3/3. Oath of Ajani will make it possible for Gideon to be cast on turn 3, rather than 4, and then be able to attack turn 4 with a 5/5 indestructible.

In addendum, there are 2 new vehicles that have been introduced in Aether Revolt Heart of Kiran and Aethersphere Harvester that could be as potentially annoying as Smuggler's Copter, but will they be banned? Who knows. What is interesting is why are MTG banning these cards? Because they can be abused? Why make cards that are OP without the foresight of knowing they'll be abused? Either way I'm salty tonight!

[mattador_actual]

I'd vote to ban all the 1CMC phyrexian mana cards.

Mutagenic Growth can be a bit busted, but Gut Shot?  Dismember feels pretty fair for what it does, but I can understand why people might not like it. 

[Mostlynotgay]

I'd vote to ban all the 1CMC phyrexian mana cards.

Mutagenic Growth can be a bit busted, but Gut Shot?  Dismember feels pretty fair for what it does, but I can understand why people might not like it.

I'm talking just the 1cmc. Dismember is 1PP. But yeah, gut shot too. The 1cmc cards (the ones that can be cast with no mana expense, just paying life) open up too many plays that just shouldn't be available. Growth, extraction, gitaxian probe, gut shot... these ones open up far too many plays for what they cost. And if Wizards justification is that Gitaxian probe allowed too many turn 3 wins, then all of these should go. Gut shot, probe, and growth are all utilized to get out turn 3 wins.

[robort]

Let me get this straight. WOTC "research" dept  didn't fully do "research" but before I completely say that lets look at the reasons of these bans.

Emrakul faced too little resistance and ended games too easily was this reason. What was "research" expecting? that the games would go one for 4 or 5 more rounds once Emrakul came into play?

Simply put, Smuggler's Copter is too efficient and shows up in too many decks, diminishing the format's diversity. We want Planeswalkers, sorcery-speed removal, and a variety of vehicles to be viable options, and believe removing Smuggler's Copter will allow them to flourish again.
So Smuggler's Copter is about "you" not the "players". Again "research" should have realized that the crew 1 was to simple to achieve not to mention the CMC cost was cheap.

Our data showed the White-Blue Flash deck was too powerful against the field, and Reflector Mage has been on players' lists of most-disliked cards since the days of Collected Company. Other cards were discussed to check White-Blue Flash, but Reflector Mage came up time and time again as both frustrating and a targeted way to diminish the White-Blue Flash deck.
Where was "research" when this card came out? It's disliked because of it's ability. It's only frustrating because one must wait a turn to play that creature that was bounced. Having to hold onto a card for a full turn because you can't play will be frustrating. But why make a card then that is frustrating. I get frustrated when someone is using nothing but removal, removal, removal, removal. But hey one has to adapt, adjust and accept. Learn to deal with the frustration and overcome it.

Which brings me to the previous banning from Modern when Eldrazi was running rampant and they did a ban there as well. Seems to me that research has been constantly dropping the ball a lot lately.

Yet you change Standard rotation, change it back, do a standard showdown because the data shows that FNM has been dwindling along with Standard play. So to keep these numbers from dwindling you go and do a ban in Standard. That should definitely help bring the numbers up (sarcasm). C'mon now, enough of the blind bs already.
Take responsibility for your "own" actions and your "own" people especialy those in "research" and even those in "development" and think for once instead of react after the fact.

[ladof]

I agree with you on the standard bans, robort, but I think modern is a bit trickier (and probably why they're starting to push Frontier). There's simply too many cards in Modern to balance everything from the new sets against them. Frankly phyrecian mana was extremely short sighted when they released it and could only get worse in time.

As for Golgari Grave-Troll, I have a feeling that will bounce back and forth as things are brought in to deal with it and fall back out of play. I think Splinter Twin might be in the same boat.

To me, if you have to ban something in standard, then your R&D departments failed; either they failed to communicate among themselves to vet out potential problems (which is where I think they screwed up with Emrakul) or they failed to properly test how a card would do with different variations before deciding on something  (like the crew cost for Smuggler's or the stickiness of the bounced minion from Reflector.)

I don't mind new cards getting banned in modern, though. A card might be a good idea for a block but it might be known early that it won't be good in modern (treasure cruise and dig through time jump to mind.)

[KouriNick]

Just to throw my two cents in about the bannings (i know, I'm a little late to the party), I think the standard bannings were good for the format, but could have been easily avoided with a little more planing.

R&D knew Emrakul was going to be the biggest, baddest thing around, and she totally was, but then they never took the step to provide answers to her. something as simple as Relic of Progenitus or Tormod's Crypt probably would have shut down Emrakul in any non-marvel deck, and would also be a powerful way to keep Delirium in check. As for Marvel itself, that could be kept in check with an artifact that drains energy (which would have been flavorful, and a great sideboard answer to Marvel and Pummler).

The biggest problem with Standard right now seems to be they're printing too many good cards and too few answers to them, so that every game just becomes a race to see who can land their Haymaker "auto-win" card. I don't think there's anything wrong with giant powerful creatures and effects, as long as the answers exist to stop (or at least slow) them.

As for Modern, I think thechoices were actually pretty clever. It reminds me a lot of the Eye of Ugin ban, in that getting rid of Golgari Grave-Troll probably won't kill off Dredge as an archetype, but will sllow it down and make it more fair to play against. The same can be said for Infect / Suicide Zoo / Suicide Blue and Gitaxian Probe. Losing probe will really slow these decks down, and not having perfect information about their opponents hand will make them more hesitant to go all in. Really, if Wizards didn't want dredge or Infect to exist at all, they could have banned Prized Amalgam and Inkmoth Nexus (or Become Immense), but I think by doing it this way, they're letting the decks live, just slowing them down. Much like how the eye of Ugin ban still let decks like Bant Eldrazi and Eldrazi Death and Taxes still exist.