The State of Standard and what you can play.

[TheWakaEmu117]

So I follow 2 formats, Standard and Legacy. I don't really follow legacy to closely but love watching it be played. Standard on the other hand I follow closely. Now as the ProTour has passed and the banning of saheeli combo has faded away what does standard look like? Personally I think that the Marvel decks would have had a banning had no one seen the Saheeli combo because they both do the same essential thing. They are both powerful midrange decks with a very consistent oops I win aspect. Personally I really don't like the Marvel decks because I don't think they are fun, they do the same thing as saheeli except its beatable its just oops turn 4 I win. Now what about the other decks, we have zombies, Mardu vehicles which got crushed at the PT but I think it is still very powerful, Izzet Control, B/U cycling, Izzet drake, and hundreds of other possible budget and non budget decks. I think that this is the best state standard has been in for a long time, if you look at it all of the top decks all have exploitable weakness. Mardu gets destroyed by constant removal and exile, zombies has trouble from sweepers but can come back with little difficulty, marvel suffers to artifact removal and disruption. Now most people already know all of this but I wanted to say it out loud to the community and hear peoples responses. If I had $150-$200 to drop on a competative deck to actually play standard with I would play one of my own builds a Abzan revolt deck but its super suseptible to spot removal and it feels clunky so maybe a different deck like izzet drake or new perspectives/second sun combo. This is just some of my thoughts and wanted to know what you all think.
Thanks
Waka 

[G. Moto]

  I am a firm believer that the quality of a deck and how well a person plays can shape the meta. It's hard for me to think that just because a person creates one great deck that it should reign supreme forever. Essentially there are three kinds of play-styles: Aggro, Mid-range and Control. If you can find what style a deck plays and the overall operation of a deck then it should be fairly simple to dismantle a person's deck when you have the right match up. Now as far as Standard's meta goes with the decks that you listed @TheWakaEmu117, it seems that control and mid range decks are dominating at the moment. Do you think that the meta may be getting stale because too many people are playing the same kinds of decks?

[TheWakaEmu117]

I don't think it's getting stale because there is a large variety decks you can build and play. With Marvel decks becoming the dominant force as the Tier one deck I think it may turn some players off of standard because of the very possible turn 4 ulamog but as we have seen marvel is beatable and not totally oppressive like saheeli combo was. I personally am planning to build a RG pummler fling deck. My friend is playing UR drake so the meta in my opinion is wide open and as long as you bring the tools to beat marvel and some of the other big decks like vehicles and zombies you should be fine. I think standard is going to be dominated by marvel at tournament level play but at LGSs I think it won't be super oppressive. I hope. Who knows I'm excited and can't wait to play.

[G. Moto]

  Whatever you choose I wish you the best of luck.

[ladof]

I'm finding my UG ramp deck works pretty well, even agasint marvel. It gets big creatures out quickly and disallow burns their energy while still stopping the spin to win. I'll sideboard in some artifact hate and suddenly they're in a grind while I'm pumping out bigger and bigger creatures.

[G. Moto]

@ladof, sometimes simpler is better.

[acidzero]

I had been playing some esper aristocrats in standard over the last month and it has been fun.  I think a big problem is that a lot of people see marvel as this rarely beatable juggernaut and think it is a tier 0 deck.  Standard in my opinion is far from solved and marvel is very beatable - Standard currently is stalled due to a lack of major event supporting it so the innovation disappeared to an extent.  I think you need to have answers for marvel and zombies in your 75, but by no means are they the only options for competitive decks.  I have been tinkering with a mill control type deck, 4c midrange and a bant walkers deck as well, all of which do decent against marvel.  Running white it is easy to mainboard answers like cast out and forsake the worldly because if they end up being dead you can always cycle them to get to something else.

[Mnemosyne]

I had been playing some esper aristocrats in standard over the last month and it has been fun.  I think a big problem is that a lot of people see marvel as this rarely beatable juggernaut and think it is a tier 0 deck.  Standard in my opinion is far from solved and marvel is very beatable - Standard currently is stalled due to a lack of major event supporting it so the innovation disappeared to an extent.  I think you need to have answers for marvel and zombies in your 75, but by no means are they the only options for competitive decks.  I have been tinkering with a mill control type deck, 4c midrange and a bant walkers deck as well, all of which do decent against marvel.  Running white it is easy to mainboard answers like cast out and forsake the worldly because if they end up being dead you can always cycle them to get to something else.

I think you've summarised the MTG community's concerns well. 
I think as a community we could solve it too! Shame we can't persuade the powers that be that we are more than qualified to do so.

[CardAgain Sweater]

Seems everyone is hating on marvel decks, calling them unbeatable - BAN NEEDED!.

There are answers for that deck, right? Quite a few after sideboard if needed. Most marvel decks need to play energy producing cards, and that limits things quite a bit for them. Very narrow path to victory, Rogue Refiners and Whirler Virtuoso aside.

I play a marvel deck without Eldrazi, and it still rules - when it hits. Stop the hit, beat the deck. How is a nut draw and spin with marvel decks so much better than the same kinda thing with zombies, control, or mardu gideon blahblahblah?

People gotta complain, I guess. Look at me: complaining about complainers.

[G. Moto]

  When in doubt mill them out.....When they have more resources than you, discard their hand.......When their deck runs faster, cancel everything they play or blow up their lands. Even though these aren't always guaranteed to give you the big W every single time they are strategies that people seem to not implement very often. It's almost like; "lets see who's decks can run the fastest!" but there's little interacting between opponents unless they are swinging an Ulamog the ceaseless hunger. So much for deck building creativity.....

[acidzero]

  When in doubt mill them out.....When they have more resources than you, discard their hand.......When their deck runs faster, cancel everything they play or blow up their lands. Even though these aren't always guaranteed to give you the big W every single time they are strategies that people seem to not implement very often. It's almost like; "lets see who's decks can run the fastest!" but there's little interacting between opponents unless they are swinging an Ulamog the ceaseless hunger. So much for deck building creativity.....

I agree 100% a lot of alternate strategies - mill can be a great wincon vs marvel but often is overlooked as a legitimate win con because its a slower burn essentially, but i sure enjoy it! I have talked with several people who view the marvel decks as unbeatable even after supplying several ways to beat it, default back to it being unbeatable and needing a ban.  We have thankfully have successfully encouraged brewing at my shop so we only have a couple people who run marvel or zombies.

[Mnemosyne]

I think there are always ways to beat the current meta like many have mentioned.
I guess the real problem people are having, especially with Aetherworks Marvel, is that the card takes a lot of the skill out of playing. It almost becomes a roulette style game that could potentially see a 10/10 with a cast trigger annihilate your board on turn 4.
Whilst you do not necessarily need to see Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger to win, there are a number of high mana cost cards that can be cast for essentially nothing. Chandra, Flamecaller, is something that is quite consistent with a Temur version of an Aetherworks Marvel deck.
It is something to consider, it is why many players were relieved that the Felidar Guardian was banned, because again, whilst with Aetherworks Marvel it is still potentially possible to come back from a 10/10 on turn 4, especially if you have something like Declaration in Stone or Titan's Presence in hand, there is almost no way to beat a deck designed to generate an infinite creature combo turn 4, unless you have Authority of the Consuls in play. Again, ultimately it is just a game of chance until you collect the pieces necessary to win.

I think having the meta, focused so much on winning, is entirely detrimental to the game.

Wizards should have created some form of energy removal mechanic in aether revolt to counter this (Aetherborn) to absorbs a players energy when he deals combat damage, would have been cool to see.

[G. Moto]

Maybe when we revisit NEw Phyrexia we can see a mechanic where they can absorb the enemy's energy for their own activated abilities. Here's an example (I just made this up);

Creature Name: "Heart Gouger"
Colors: Mono-B,
Power/Toughness: 2/3
Mana cost: 4 mana (3 colorless, 1 Black)
Abilities: first strike. When this creature blocks or attacks you can SIPHON (action word) one energy from your opponent or a +1/+1 counter from target creature being blocked. Add a +1/+1 counter to Heart Gouger.

   A set geared towards this where the phyrexians want to extract energy and resources from their enemies would make a great block. They are harvesters after all, I can see this balancing out the meta quite well.

[CardAgain Sweater]

Newish player here, so my opinion will be limited to what I've learned in a few months.

Starting right after Aether Revolt release, I was knee deep in energy card potential,  loved the possibilities. Looking at older mechanics with counters: +/-, time, age, loyalty, spore, etc - there was always a card to modify or mess with those counters, and I was really surprised that there are few, if no, ways to fiddle with energy counter totals, even punishing a player for gaining energy.

I think it is because the energy producing cards are in most cases already heavily priced in terms of mana or utility aside from energy production - gotta pay to play the energy game. Also, they are powerful enough to not need many boosting effects. Like in all mechanics, there are some 'broken' cards, in that they are more advantageous or less costly. Like most successful theme decks, energy decks have to sacrifice in some areas to go all in enough to benefit from theme. 

When it was saheeli / felidar, that ban needed to happen...after a very long period - and many of those same folks thought Gideon too needed the hook. Those were the key cards in the 2 dominant standard decks. But it has been proven out that Mardu Vehicles was only as dominant as it was because it was best at Copycat and the best toolbox to deal with the rest that had to warp their decks to compete with copycat. Now that Mardu Vehicles has to stand on its own against decks free from turn 4 death...other themes are making their mark.

I think talk of banning Marvel is a little too soon, seeing as it is far from unstoppable, and especially when the big bad eldrazi will be gone soon.

Oh. Bolas. Well, my other points stand

[G. Moto]

If Bolas gets a reprint then Gatewatch help us all. IT's going to be ridiculous playing against a triple-colored planeswalker who basically kills, steals and manipulates whatever he wants on a whim. But as far as the standard scene goes decks seem to be unstoppable because obviously people focus so much on playing the Winning decks that no one thinks outside of the bubble and makes a deck that stands on its own two feet and prospers. Any deck can be beat, you just need to know it's flaws and exploit its weaknesses.