Amonket Soulstinger ruling

[Bartley]

Soulstinger

So last night this weird situation came up during a 2 hour game that would not end....

Playing a three player game and I attack the opponent to my left with 4 Soulstingers.  I attacked with them knowing they would all die so that I could in return put the counters from soulstinger on the player to my right's creatures.  Specifically the opponent my right had two Eldrazi Displacers and I wanted them to die because of the shenanigans they were pulling from bouncing creatures.

So damage is dealt and all 4 soulstingers die...   I try and move all 8 of the negative counters from my 4 Soulstingers to the two Eldrazi Displacer's to kill them both.   At this point the right player tries to respond by using the Eldrazi Displacer's ability to bounce the other to try and avoid them dying.

SO now on to the question....   

510.2 Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. This turn-based action doesn’t use the stack. No player has the chance to cast spells or activate abilities between the time combat damage is assigned and the time it’s dealt.

603.2a Because they aren’t cast or activated, triggered abilities can trigger even when it isn’t legal to cast spells and activate abilities. Effects that prevent abilities from being activated don’t affect them.

Do these rules mean that the player can not respond with the activated ability's of Eldrazi Displacers?  Or does the ability from Soul stinger go on the stack after combat damage and then it is able to be responded to?


Thanks for reading and I appreciate help figuring this out:)

[lysdexicnick]

If they've died, that means damage has already been dealt and the act of putting the counters on a creature from his triggered ability resolves before anything else goes on the stack... if they are bounce after attackers/blockers are declared but before damage is dealt, then they are bounced.

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

[Mishra]

If they've died, that means damage has already been dealt and the act of putting the counters on a creature from his triggered ability resolves before anything else goes on the stack... if they are bounce after attackers/blockers are declared but before damage is dealt, then they are bounced.

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

Well, not quite right.

You missed something here.
Soulstinger s second ability is a triggered ability as you already mentioned correctly. But this triggered ability uses the stack. Targets are declared when the abilities are put on the stack.
Bartley's friend can then use both Eldrazi Displacer s abilities to flicker each other in response. By the time the abilities with those -1/-1 counters resolve the Displacers will be back as totally new creatures and the abilities won't have a legal target anymore.

So, yes, Bartley's friend can use those abilities to save the Displacers.

[Bartley]

If they've died, that means damage has already been dealt and the act of putting the counters on a creature from his triggered ability resolves before anything else goes on the stack... if they are bounce after attackers/blockers are declared but before damage is dealt, then they are bounced.

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

Well, not quite right.

You missed something here.
Soulstinger s second ability is a triggered ability as you already mentioned correctly. But this triggered ability uses the stack. Targets are declared when the abilities are put on the stack.
Bartley's friend can then use both Eldrazi Displacer s abilities to flicker each other in response. By the time the abilities with those -1/-1 counters resolve the Displacers will be back as totally new creatures and the abilities won't have a legal target anymore.

So, yes, Bartley's friend can use those abilities to save the Displacers.

This is exactly what I argued.  I knew the triggered ability used the stack .. and the fact that its using the stack means it can be responded to.  My friends seemed to think it all happened during combat clean up when players can not cast spells or abilities.

Thanks for looking into this:)

[lysdexicnick]

If they've died, that means damage has already been dealt and the act of putting the counters on a creature from his triggered ability resolves before anything else goes on the stack... if they are bounce after attackers/blockers are declared but before damage is dealt, then they are bounced.

Does that answer your question sufficiently?

Well, not quite right.

You missed something here.
Soulstinger s second ability is a triggered ability as you already mentioned correctly. But this triggered ability uses the stack. Targets are declared when the abilities are put on the stack.
Bartley's friend can then use both Eldrazi Displacer s abilities to flicker each other in response. By the time the abilities with those -1/-1 counters resolve the Displacers will be back as totally new creatures and the abilities won't have a legal target anymore.

So, yes, Bartley's friend can use those abilities to save the Displacers.

This is exactly what I argued.  I knew the triggered ability used the stack .. and the fact that its using the stack means it can be responded to.  My friends seemed to think it all happened during combat clean up when players can not cast spells or abilities.

Thanks for looking into this:)

so the eldrazi displacer's weren't the ones receiving the combat damage? >.< im slightly confused by the scenario but as long as you've figured it out

[Firegriff]

Three player game, but yes, the displacers live.  Provided he had 2 colorless mana and four of any other color available to use

[Mishra]

No problem lysdexicnick. Had to read it twice too to make sure I got it correct but he mentioned left and right players so the defending player was not the one with the two Displacers.

However Bartleys comment irritates me a bit now.....not towards the ruling question but to the situation. Somehow reads as if in the end he was the player controlling the two Displacers...^^

[Bartley]

No problem lysdexicnick. Had to read it twice too to make sure I got it correct but he mentioned left and right players so the defending player was not the one with the two Displacers.

However Bartleys comment irritates me a bit now.....not towards the ruling question but to the situation. Somehow reads as if in the end he was the player controlling the two Displacers...^^

Not exactly sure what you mean but I very much hated the player controlling the displacers...    To go into more detail I was playing green black negative counters... right was playing boros/eldrazi and left was playing green white life gain.  To make matters worse right player had a Grand Abolisher out so the only way we could eliminate the displacers was to do it on our turns, thus me and the left player had to work together to get rid of of the right player.   

We could not find the answer to our question online so to resolve the situation we just allowed him to bounce his displacers which ended up being correct after all.

Spoiler alert...  I lost the game horribly because right player played a Void Winnower and I was murdered.  Green white stole the victory because they had a Trostani, Selesnya's Voice and a Archangel of Thune kept gaining tons of life from his creatures being bounced.

Thanks for helping resolve this question that caused so much Drama!

[Mishra]

Oh boy how much I miss multiplayer/kitchen table drama from the good ol' days.
We never had an evening without it. Must have been the fact that we played for ante that made that drama even worse. On top of that imagine the chaos caused by more than a hand full of Memory Jar activations in a single turn and keeping track of which hand everybody gets to keep.

What I meant was that your comment sounded like "I knew I was right and able to save my Displacers" regardless of the roles described in the original post.