Mulligan

[lysdexicnick]

In a standard tournament, what's the most mulligans you'd recommend before just staying altogether? Like hypothetically you have 3 crappy mulligans. When would a pro stop mulliganing?

[CardAgain Sweater]

In a standard tournament, what's the most mulligans you'd recommend before just staying altogether? Like hypothetically you have 3 crappy mulligans. When would a pro stop mulliganing?

I believe this is one of those questions that has to be answered with the obligatory 'it depends on the deck'.

For a deck with 20 lands that needs 3 to really go off, mulliganing a 2 land hand then trying to get 3 lands with one fewer cards is another chance, but one with less likelihood of success than your first 7 cards.

There are lots of other examples - combo pieces, curve, etc.

It is an age old question that applies to everyone, but each case is very individualized. I know that didn't help much. Do you play one deck more often than others? If so, you could post it and members can comment on mulligans for the specific deck.

[Soren841]

Well if you're original hand is bad, as well as 3 mulligans.. then that's just an issue of consistency in the deck, if you can't hit a playable hand after 4 tries

[ladof]

I agree with Soren. If you're mulliganing that much, you really should take a look at your deck. I know its slightly different for constructed over sealed, but realize that each time you mulligan, you're giving away card advantage. Two mulligans is basically a free mind rot for your opponent (although the cards don't hit the graveyard.) If you can't consistently hit a decent hand in two tries (original draw + mulligan), you might want to take a good look at the whole of the deck and figure out ways to tweak it for improvement.

[lysdexicnick]

Got it. No, so my mana flow for the deck i was thinking of is 33% mana and my average mana cost is like 2.93, one card higher than 5 mana (at 6). I was doing "starting hand" for my deck and got 0 mana, 1 mana, 1 mana, 1 mana and i was like wtfrench toast, i have 33% mana this should not happen. I know it's very unlikely, but I was just curious for that particular scenario i suppose.

[Soren841]

33% in a 60 card deck is 20 land, have at least 21-22

[lysdexicnick]

I'm stubborn and so I refuse haha. I know it's bad but I am a risk taker >=)

[ladof]

I do that too, Lys. I've made one deck with 24 lands  (ramp, where it's really needed.) Everything else is 20. I still have games where I flood out, but I also have games where I'm starved. That's a card game for you, though. There's always a little bit of randomness you can't get rid of.

[Goon]

I do that too, Lys. I've made one deck with 24 lands  (ramp, where it's really needed.) Everything else is 20. I still have games where I flood out, but I also have games where I'm starved. That's a card game for you, though. There's always a little bit of randomness you can't get rid of.

Just a note - 20 land is very light.. Like, most aggressive decks (highest mana card being 3, a 1 or 2-of) run 20 land at minimum.

[CardAgain Sweater]

I do that too, Lys. I've made one deck with 24 lands  (ramp, where it's really needed.) Everything else is 20. I still have games where I flood out, but I also have games where I'm starved. That's a card game for you, though. There's always a little bit of randomness you can't get rid of.

Just a note - 20 land is very light.. Like, most aggressive decks (highest mana card being 3, a 1 or 2-of) run 20 land at minimum.

I agree that 20 lands is very light - it is not just about average cmc and curve. Always consider probability as well. Even if a deck is monocolored, only plays untap lands, and "only needs 3 lands", when you play 20, you will only get 3 lands 43% of the time in your opening 7 cards (27% = exactly 3, 16% = more than 3, and 4 or more lands in opening 7 would probably be considered bad in a deck that only wants 20 lands total).

That means over half of the opening hands in a 20 land deck would have 2 or fewer lands. With only 33% of the deck being land, statistically speaking, one should only expect one land for every 3 draws. That is not digging out of a mana hole very well.

So, mulligan to 6 on opening hands with only 2 lands in a 20 land deck?  The chances of getting 3 lands with 6 cards drops to 31%.

If you are ok with starting at 2 lands and banking on drawing more, 20 lands could be the right number. But math says add a land or two if you want to avoid having to mulligan to get the right amount of land to start a game.

Everybody is different  Makes the game fun.