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Author Topic: [Legacy] Enchantress  (Read 626 times)

Borg

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« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 07:35:24 am by Borg »

Soren841

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2017, 06:15:29 pm »
Serra's Sanctum is legendary so maybe 3 is too many
Nils is the God I worship

Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2017, 06:21:31 pm »
Serra's Sanctum is legendary so maybe 3 is too many
Not really, Soren.
This works just like Gaea's Cradle in a creature deck.

Serra's Sanctum can give you an enormous mana boost when it hits and gets even better if you can tap one and then play another for even more mana.
I'd run 4 but I'm trying out a Nikhtos as a fourth copy.
Sanctum + Shrine to Nix can potentially be powerful imo.

I'd really suggest to try this out, if only just a number of test draws.

Soren841

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2017, 06:25:11 pm »
But if you did that you'd waste a ton of mana because nothing in your deck requires particularly large amounts of mana. Also maybe a little more card draw. 1 Victory's Herald as a finisher couldn't hurt
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Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2017, 06:37:44 pm »
But if you did that you'd waste a ton of mana because nothing in your deck requires particularly large amounts of mana. Also maybe a little more card draw. 1 Victory's Herald as a finisher couldn't hurt
More card draw ?
I'm not sure I understand.

This deck can draw cards all the time ( once you've got your Argothian Enchantress and/or Enchantress's Presence of course )

Most cards in this deck cost 3 mana so having a Serra's sanctum on board lets you play multiple Enchantments per turn and thus draw multiple new cards as well.

Classic opening :

T1 Forest type land - Utopia Sprawl
T2 Land - Argothian Enchantress - Exploration - draw a card
T3 Sterling Grove - draw a card - Serra's Santum - 3-mana enchantment - draw a card
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 06:39:46 pm by Borg »

Soren841

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2017, 06:38:55 pm »
Oh I missed the creature
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Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 06:41:11 pm »
Oh I missed the creature
She makes quite a difference alright ;)

Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 12:52:33 am »
Early Shrine = no good.
Early Sanctum = gold.


Revision 33

Added/removed cards:
-1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx

Changed amounts:
+1 Serra's Sanctum

crimsonking

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2018, 01:58:55 pm »
Please, have a look at my own take to this archetype.
It's been a while since the last time I've updated it, but it's very tuned up nonetheless.
https://deckstats.net/decks/54477/385264-enchantress
« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 02:04:45 pm by crimsonking »

Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2018, 02:43:21 pm »
Thanks for posting your version here too CK.
Nice opportunity to go over both versions and explain my choices.

The common factor :
Obviously, the engine is the same.
4x Argothian Enchantress, 4x Enchantress's Presence and last but not least, 4x Utopia Sprawl.

Land :
We both have exactly twenty land.
You have 11 Forest types and 4 fetches, I have 12 forest types and 4 fetches to accommodate the Utopia Sprawls.
I think this is the type of deck where 4 Temple Gardens is possible because of the Explorations. They allow them to be played as extra land drops so the come-into-play-tapped doesn't hurt as much as when you have only 1 land drop per turn.

The big difference however are the Serra's Sanctum.
Imo, this is the most important card after your engine, thus 4 copies.
This card grows quickly and I do like one in my opening hand as I usually have a Utopia Sprawl or Exploration on T1 so I can play a Sanctum on T2 if I have to.
The Sanctum usually provides all the mana for an extra enchantment drop all on its own ( I have 20 mono white enchantments ), even a 5cc Sigil of the Empty Throne, so it provides an extra drop and thus extra card draw.
Of course it gets even better when you tap one to play an enchantment and draw, then play a new Sanctum and draw more.

I noticed you splashed red for Blood Moon, but you'll understand that Blood Moon is a big no-no in a deck that wants to exploit Serra's Sanctum. I'm also of the opinion that you don't really need this red splash at all.
Words of War is nice tech but do you really need it ? Maybe when facing a Mother of Runes.
In that case I think I'd rather add Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite to my SB to deal with creatures that can withstand my enchantments.

I also tried Nykthos, Shrine to Nix shortly instead of a fourth Sanctum but that experiment was quickly terminated.
Having the Shrine early really doesn't help you, whereas the Sanctum early is great and getting it late means its effectiveness is not that big anymore as you can already cast whatever you draw anyway.

Exploration and Mirri's Guile :
I found that I like Mirri's Guile when I draw it early but when the deck is up-and-running it doesn't really matter that much anymore ( like, occasional benefit but nothing worldshaking ) since you draw multiple cards anyway every turn.
So, I removed it.
However, you run 3 Exploration and I run 4 and I think you may be correct that we don't need 4 of them.
Getting them T1 is only useful to trigger the Sanctum ( but Mirri's Guile can do that just the same ) or when you have enough land in your opening hand to go to 3 land on T2.
Mostly though, the Explorations start to pay off midgame when you start drawing multiple cards.
So, I think the right mix (for me anyway) may be 3 Explorations and 1 Mirri's Guile.

Sigil of the Empty Throne and Luminarch Ascension. :
I'm surprised you run only 1 Sigil, but I also understand since you run only 2 Sanctum.
Sigil however imo is soooo much better than Luminarch Ascension. Matter of fact, I don't like LA at all.
You can play Ascension on T2 alright, but it will take you at least until T6 before it does anything and 1) you can't take damage during those turns or it triggers even later and 2) you have to pay again to get something out of it whereas EVERY enchantment spell after Sigil means a FREE 4/4 Flying Angel.
And because of the Sanctums I can get it in play pretty fast as well.
Check this ordinary opening :
T1 Forest - Utopia Sprawl
T2 Land - Sterling Grove
T3 Serra's Santum - Sigil of the Empty Throne ( and it has shroud, thanks to Sterling Grove )
T4 Angels start flying out ...

Elephant Grass and Ghostly Prison :
Elephant Grass is cheaper and can stop black creatures outright but the upkeep cost is a killer imo.
You can't cast this early without stunting your own build-up and if you want to keep it in play for multiple turns the costs can overwhelm you. So, I'd rather play the Prison which may cost you more upfront but doesn't require any upkeep afterwards.
The cost is usually no problem either as it is usually a matter of which enchantments do I draw & play instead of which enchantments do I choose to play from my hand.
Maybe I should consider Elephant Grass as a SB option ( against black ) but I don't know if I need it on top of already 4 Prisons.

I had 3 Ghostly Prisons and 1 Moat at one point but I took the Moat out of the main deck because against opposing Flyers Moat does absolutely nothing whereas Ghostly Prison works vs all creatures.

Enlightened Tutor and Sterling Grove :
Enlightened Tutor is probably one of my most played cards all time but in this case I prefer the Groves simply because of the powerful extra's it gives to this deck : Shroud and extra card drawing.

Runed Halo :
I think is most powerful vs Lands, Merfolk or Emrakul for that matter and I'm very tempted to put one back in but I have only 1 spot left and I prefer to have a Leyline of Sanctity available just a little more. If there are other reasons why you play Runed Halo, please share.

Solitary Confinement :
The benefits of this card are obvious but the drawbacks are too much for me to give this card a spot.
See if you follow here : You have to discard every turn to keep it in play which is something I don't want to focus on. I don't like to rely on the graveyard too much. Of course it explains your two copies of Replenish main board which I only have in the SB as I assume I will only need them after game 1.
The main problem however is that you forfeit your draw step. That means you can play this card only effectively AFTER you have set up your drawing engine, unless you want to stop your opponent doing damage / targeting you for just one turn and let it go to the graveyard which means you're not in a very good situation to begin with.

So, I understand this Solitary Confinement / Replenish combo you have in your deck but that's something I want to stay away from as I'd rather focus on the following three enchantments ...

Oblivion Ring, Banishing Light, Nevermore :
I had a City of Solitude in the main deck earlier too but figured Nevermore could do the job just as well. Name Force of Will and they have to counter it or be without FoW's entirely, not only on your turn.
Oblivion Ring and Banishing Light allow me to take away whatever I find threatening and buy time.
All of them can be played with a single tap of a Sanctum.

Thanks again for posting your deck CK
I like to feed off your knowledge and experience ;)
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 03:19:53 pm by Borg »

Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2018, 02:50:27 pm »



Revision 34

Added/removed cards:
+1 Mirri's Guile
-1 (SB) Helm of Obedience
+2 (SB) Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite

Changed amounts:
-1 Exploration
-1 (SB) Runed Halo

Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2018, 04:57:37 pm »



Revision 35

Added/removed cards:
-2 (SB) Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
-1 (SB) Moat
+2 (SB) Choke
+2 (SB) Karmic Justice

Changed amounts:
-1 (SB) City of Solitude

crimsonking

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 01:02:45 am »
Replenish is retroactive, Karmic Justice is not.
I mean, if your opponent wipes your enchantments and you cast Replenish, you're back on the run. If you cast Karmic Justice, you're as fucked as before.
The only advantage of Karmic Justice over Replenish is that you can tutor it with Sterling Grove (and Enlightened Tutor, if you ever decide to play it).
That's why I suggest to play no more than one Karmic Justice. The rest shall be all Replenish.

Borg

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Re: [Legacy] Enchantress of the Empty Throne
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2018, 03:22:23 pm »
Good point. SB adjusted.


Revision 36

Changed amounts:
-1 (SB) Karmic Justice
+1 (SB) Replenish