Dealing With Toxic Players

[Red_Wyrm]

Hello. Sorry, but this is a more serious topic today.

As the title implies, there is a player in my playgroup, which I would classify as toxic. I'll list what his NORMAL reactions to things are. Situations like what I am about to describe happen fairly often. I am not exaggerating when I say it is multiple times per game. Ultimately I am seeking advice on how to deal with him as an opponent and human being.

1) He doesn't know the rulings on cards, and if you contradict what he thinks, he proceeds to YELL. For example he has owned a sliver deck for years, with constricting sliver. He exiled a few of my cards with it, then he died, and I got my creatures back, but he refused to believe that was the ruling until I showed it to him. Another time i had goblin king out and he was playing my sen triplets deck. He cast realmwright naming mountains, and I inform him that means I can mountain walk on him. He tells "NO. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE CARD SAYS!" To which I reply yes it is. Note he yelled this before even checking to see what it said.

2) I mentioned above he has played MY sen triplets deck. That is the deck where I have put the most money. About 400, and as an unemployed college kid, that's like a years income for me. If something doesn't go his way, he will violently throw his hand on the table. I cast diabolic edict on him once (not expensive I know) and he threw it across the room (not exaggerating) because he had to sac mizzix making him like 12 to cast.

3) He simply cannot see other points of view. My friend played avenger of zendikar, getting several plants, followed by like 3 lands, and another 2 or 3 on his next turn, making big plants, and he explicitly stated they were coming at me because we always try to kill each other first. The only way I could survive was to board wipe, which I did. For the rest of the night, toxic player proceeds to beret me for board wiping when he had a card in his hand to exile all permernents with the same name, getting rid of the tokens. He doesn't understand I cannot rely on him to save me when he doesn't say anything, and even if he did, how am I supposed to know he won't let the other player kill me before using it?

4) He is a stickler for the rules, when it suits him. If I say I attack player x, then say no we'll attack you instead, he throws a fit, but if he has rustic study out, he expects us to let him draw cards two turns after the spells have been cast. (Okay maybe a slight exaggeration there)

5) This is absolutely stupid. If you attack him for say 15 life link damage which would kill him, he'll concede, claiming you dont get the life. He also conceded on turn 3 because a goblin deck had hit him for 7. He had plenty of stuff to play and was not mana screwed or anything, he just decided to quit. Why play if you're gonna quit on turn 3?

I tried to not rant, but it felt good to get some of this out, sorry. As I said in the beginning, any advice on dealing with this behavior is greatly appreciated.

I should also say he is 30+ years old with 2 kids. My brother is 9 and is a better sport about losing in mtg (and a better player).

[Morganator 2.0]

I met someone like this (thought not as extreme) and told him "You're a grown man throwing a temper tantrum. Don't make me get my belt."

Did it help, no. But it felt good to say it.

The way I see it, he's not going to listen to reason, so you have two options.

Option 1: avoidance

Is there no way for you to avoid this guy? In the past, I was at commander night at a game store, and someone approached me and said "We need a third person for our pod, do you want to join?" Knowing how unpleasant this person was (he likes trash-talking and belittling people) I straight-up said "Not really, you're a pretty unpleasant person to be around." Since then, I haven't played a single game with them.

Maybe this is just my style, but I tend to tell people that I don't like them, and as a result, I don't have to play games with them in the future. If you don't like this guy, don't play with him. Even if you don't want to do this, at least don't let him play with your decks anymore.

Option 2: kick his ass

Not physically, I mean in the game (although not gonna lie, fist-fight might work too, but I don't condone violence). This is how I had to deal with the "grown man throwing a temper tantrum". You see, we would go to a competitive commander night, so I couldn't avoid playing with him. His unpleasantness and sore-loserness had turned away a lot of new people.

So how we dealt with him, is we beat him out of the game. We ramped up the power level of our decks, and played faster. His lower powered decks couldn't compete, which annoyed him. We persisted until he had finally had enough. He wanted to make a stax deck that would counter all of the powerful decks in our meta. Specifically, he wanted to stop my Captain Sisay and Edric, Spymaster of Trest decks. He went on sabbatical, saying he wouldn't return until his Grand Arbiter Augustin IV deck was finished.

Sure enough, a month later he returned, ready to go. I played two games with him that night, once with Sisay, once with Edric... both times I wiped the floor with him. The games weren't even close. Since then, we haven't seen him again.

Take note, this only worked because he was a bad player. Personally, I think you should go with the first option; refuse to play with him, and make sure him, and everyone else knows it. If you start, others will follow

[Ylhyssia]

I'm gonna agree with Morganator: avoiding these players is one of the best way to go. If everyone does the same, then they'll realize that their attitude is pushing everyone away, and hopefully they'll finally start to change.

These people keep doing things like that partly because we let them do it, either by turning a blind eye or allowing the behavior, so they have no reason to stop acting this way. So call them out on their attitude, refuse to play with them, don't let them play with your decks, call judges on them, anything. Either they'll change, or you at least won't have to deal with their shit.

It's win-win either way.

[Soren841]

Basically what they said. Scooping before lethal lifelink is perfect viable to do though.

[Morganator 2.0]

Scooping before lethal lifelink is perfect viable to do though.

Petty scooping is a dick move. They've already lost the game, so they're just doing it out of spite and being a sore loser.

[Soren841]

They're doing it so u don't get the lifelink 🙄 that's like a real thing not being a dick

[WWolfe]

I think it's safe to say we've all came across a player(s) like this. I agree with most of what it is said in this thread as far as refusing to play with the guy, it's usually the best option. I also agree with just beating the crap out of him each game. I actually have a permission deck I carry with me to play just in case I come across one of these people where I will focus solely on that person. I don't pull it out after one or two random incidents, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for a game or two, but if you clearly are just that type of player then I have no problem not winning if I can make that persons play experience in a game as miserable as they've made everyone else's the previous few games.

I've only ever pulled the deck out three times, but it's made it's point. Two of the guys totally changed their demeanor, the other we've never seen again.

[Red_Wyrm]

I met someone like this (thought not as extreme) and told him "You're a grown man throwing a temper tantrum. Don't make me get my belt."

Did it help, no. But it felt good to say it.

The way I see it, he's not going to listen to reason, so you have two options.

Option 1: avoidance

Is there no way for you to avoid this guy? In the past, I was at commander night at a game store, and someone approached me and said "We need a third person for our pod, do you want to join?" Knowing how unpleasant this person was (he likes trash-talking and belittling people) I straight-up said "Not really, you're a pretty unpleasant person to be around." Since then, I haven't played a single game with them.

Maybe this is just my style, but I tend to tell people that I don't like them, and as a result, I don't have to play games with them in the future. If you don't like this guy, don't play with him. Even if you don't want to do this, at least don't let him play with your decks anymore.

Option 2: kick his ass

Not physically, I mean in the game (although not gonna lie, fist-fight might work too, but I don't condone violence). This is how I had to deal with the "grown man throwing a temper tantrum". You see, we would go to a competitive commander night, so I couldn't avoid playing with him. His unpleasantness and sore-loserness had turned away a lot of new people.

So how we dealt with him, is we beat him out of the game. We ramped up the power level of our decks, and played faster. His lower powered decks couldn't compete, which annoyed him. We persisted until he had finally had enough. He wanted to make a stax deck that would counter all of the powerful decks in our meta. Specifically, he wanted to stop my Captain Sisay and Edric, Spymaster of Trest decks. He went on sabbatical, saying he wouldn't return until his Grand Arbiter Augustin IV deck was finished.

Sure enough, a month later he returned, ready to go. I played two games with him that night, once with Sisay, once with Edric... both times I wiped the floor with him. The games weren't even close. Since then, we haven't seen him again.

Take note, this only worked because he was a bad player. Personally, I think you should go with the first option; refuse to play with him, and make sure him, and everyone else knows it. If you start, others will follow

We usually play once a week, on Saturday or maybe Sunday, depending on people's schedule. The past five or six times we've met to play, I've gone out of my way to stop him from winning. It is fairly easy because he is not the greatest of players. He overthinks things too much. He refused to attack his opponent because his opponent had an empty board with two untapped WHITE mana. He explicitly stated he was afraid of a board wipe. All his slivers were indestructible, so only exile or sacrifice would really work, and that isn't happening in white at instant speed for two mana, and his opponent told him this. Well he lost. My point is, it's really easy to make him lose.

Well we played yesterday, hence why I posted yesterday as I was just so fed up with it all, and he was playing a new mono white elesh norn, grand cenobite deck. He played the boardwipe that says destroy all non white creatures. Mass cleanse or something like that. Well I cast disallow, which gave my brother (who was playing Gisath, Sun's Avatar with no less than 10 dinosaurs out) the game. This was his fifth win of the night, and I was a little happy to see a 9 year old excited to have won 5 games, but that was ultimately ruined because he felt bad for winning from this dudes temper tantrum. Now I do have a point to this story, I promise.

The entire table was angry with me for doing this for the fact that I gave the game to him, while stopping the man child from winning a game that night. Once he left (because he threw a fit) I explained myself, and they completely understood (and they implied they wouldn't invite him over anymore), but before the dude left, I was faced with three people who were yelling at me for counter spelling a board wipe. The whole idea of beat him until he doesn't find it fun, doesn't seem to work. I should also tell you he does not have fun when he wins, either. He plays to win, and gets upset when I play to win as well. I have fun when I lose, unless someone plays Iona, locking one of my mono colored decks out of the game, because I am not playing magic anymore, and I express my discontent for the card, but other than that, if I am having a great game and it turns into archenemy against me and I end up losing, I find that a huge compliment.

And to the other option, we aren't at an LGS. We convene at one person's house and play commander there, so it isn't like I can choose to play with another group in the shop. There are not any LGSs near my campus, so I am stuck with the same playgroup, and the entire playgroup is great, except for him.

I am not trying to counter your points, sorry if it comes across like that, but I am trying to explain why I don't think their going to be a solution in this situation.

Also scooping before lifelink goes off is 100% a dick move. If someone demonic tutor's for a whip of erebos, then casts it, and is able to deal 30+ damage and kill someone, they have absolutely earned that 30+ life.

[Soren841]

I'd go with option 2b and kick his ass for real, personally..

[Red_Wyrm]

I'd go with option 2b and kick his ass for real, personally..

This legitimately made me laugh, and if I didn't have to face any consequences, I would certainly do this.

[Morganator 2.0]

He played the boardwipe that says destroy all non white creatures. Mass cleanse or something like that.

Mass Calcify.

Anyhow, this is a pickle. My bluntness and straight-to-the-point attitude usually lets me avoid these people. How many people are in your playgroup? It sounds like there are quite a few of you, so maybe you can talk to some other people in the group and see what they think of his behaviour, and brainstorm what to do.

Or you can do like myself and be direct. Confront him; tell him that he shouldn't be acting this way, that he should not be a grown man having a tantrum. If possible, get some other people to back you up. That way he knows that it's the group that disapproves of the way he's acting, not just you.

You can either deal with this outside of game; pull him aside, tell him that the way he talked is unacceptable, handle it privately. Or (my favorite way), confront him in the moment. When he says "NO. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE CARD SAYS!", keep calm, and say "Whoah, take a deep breath". If he's throwing a fit, tell him to quit acting like a child, and make sure other people in the group see you do this. When you confront someone in the moment, while others are watching, your message tends to stick more.

Hell, have a speech ready. Think about what you need to say to him. Be firm, be confident, and stress that he needs to fix his attitude. I can't guarantee that this will cause his personality to do a 180^o, but it might make other people in the group more inclined to speak up, and you may see small changes in his attitude. This is going to be rough, but you need small changes before big strides.

[Red_Wyrm]

He played the boardwipe that says destroy all non white creatures. Mass cleanse or something like that.

Mass Calcify.

Anyhow, this is a pickle. My bluntness and straight-to-the-point attitude usually lets me avoid these people. How many people are in your playgroup? It sounds like there are quite a few of you, so maybe you can talk to some other people in the group and see what they think of his behaviour, and brainstorm what to do.

Or you can do like myself and be direct. Confront him; tell him that he shouldn't be acting this way, that he should not be a grown man having a tantrum. If possible, get some other people to back you up. That way he knows that it's the group that disapproves of the way he's acting, not just you.

You can either deal with this outside of game; pull him aside, tell him that the way he talked is unacceptable, handle it privately. Or (my favorite way), confront him in the moment. When he says "NO. THAT'S NOT WHAT THE CARD SAYS!", keep calm, and say "Whoah, take a deep breath". If he's throwing a fit, tell him to quit acting like a child, and make sure other people in the group see you do this. When you confront someone in the moment, while others are watching, your message tends to stick more.

Hell, have a speech ready. Think about what you need to say to him. Be firm, be confident, and stress that he needs to fix his attitude. I can't guarantee that this will cause his personality to do a 180^o, but it might make other people in the group more inclined to speak up, and you may see small changes in his attitude. This is going to be rough, but you need small changes before big strides.

There are 5-6 of us in the group. There is my god father, who never shows up anymore because well, life, and he introduced me to his work friend. His friend is where we all play at, his house. His wife plays, my brother and myself, and he who shall not be named. This is hardly the first time we've had a problem with him, and we've gone several weeks without inviting him, while still playing magic for the reasons I mentioned in my first post. For some reason, all of us, including myself, give in after a while (not because he is insistent, but because we get bored with the smaller group after 4-5 hours) and invite him back over. So, for sure, everyone else in the group will back me up, but I don't want to be the person who proposes we stop inviting him permanently. Ultimately, I love my little brother to death (don't tell him) and since he seems to suck the fun out of it for my brother, I think I'll say something to the playgroup about him not being fun to play with.

Again sorry for the rants in my earlier posts. I was half seeking advice, and half wanting somewhere to vent my frustration. Mr. Morganator, you have been helpful, Soren, you've been useless, not helping Nissa fight the eldrazi, but thanks guys.

[corneal35]

I should also say he is 30+ years old with 2 kids. My brother is 9 and is a better sport about losing in mtg (and a better player).

this was funny till I hit this part

[Red_Wyrm]

I should also say he is 30+ years old with 2 kids. My brother is 9 and is a better sport about losing in mtg (and a better player).

this was funny till I hit this part

I do not know how to interpret what you mean, but glad someone is enjoying my pain and misery.

[crimsonking]

Reprints:
Rhystic Study
Mirri's Guile
Exploration
Generals:
non-aggro (stax?) Boros general
New cards:
enemy-color Odyssey filter lands (aka Darkwater Catacombs)
something against Super Friends (I hate Super Friends) 
something against Ramp (long live Armageddon!)