English-language Forums > Commander Discussion
Brewing CEDH Decks
Red_Wyrm:
Hello.
First off I will say I've looked at the intro to CEDH thread, and read it in its entirety.
There are a lot of combos that win the game instantly and it seems CEDH is a race to get one of these combos off. My question is what exactly is a CEDH player doing when they are "brewing" with a new card like prime speaker vannifar?
When I build my decks, I think of what I want to do. I want to amass an army of goblins and kill my opponents quickly. So I put a lot of cards that help do that in the deck. I learned later that I had an infinite combo in the deck that won the game on the spot. I had skirk prospector, krenko, mob boss, aggravated assault, and impact tremors out, along with a few tokens. I was able to sac the tokens to make enough mana to activate aggravated assault, which untapped krenko for infinite activations and infinite etb effects on impact tremor.
I discovered this completely on accident. So say I want to brew with prime speaker vannifar. Aside from looking up broken ways to combo out on turn 3 or 4 with him(her?) Can someone explain how a CEDH player found out how to exploit the prime speaker. And then what process do you use to build your deck once you have the combo pieces?
Soren841:
Well first let's assume every cEDH player has fairly large amount of card knowledge from just playing and brewing for so long. We basically already know that we need untappers to break Vannifar, and we know what most of them are (had to search for a few) because of decks like Selvala and Marwyn, and because KikiPod is somewhat played.
So that leaves the wincon. Basically it's split between Hulk and Deadeye shenanigans in the community rn. Everyone just automatically knows what Hulk is, he's the bogeyman basically. So, she's in the colors for Flash Hulk and she is a sac outlet for Hulk that also grabs protection in Archetype of Endurance. We can see all of this already just with what we know, so obviously it didn't take long to build the first drafts. The Deadeye lines are a bit less played and I'm not sure who made the line to put it into Vannifar, but basically you look for ways to abuse her ability that ends in some relatively compact combo. The card search on here makes it easy because I can search an effect that I'm looking for and see what cards do that.
Sorry if I rambled, I suck at writing stuff.. feel free to have me clarify any points lol
Morganator 2.0:
Yay, I'm really glad you read the intro thread!
Half the deck is usually routine stuff. Make your land base, add in mana ramp, card draw, tutors, interaction, and the deck is over half done.
Basically when a new commander comes out, you need to look at what they do and think "How do I break this card?" Recently (same set as Prime Speaker Vannifar) I had to do this with Lavinia, Azorius Renegade. I noticed two important things with her.
* My opponents can't cast things for free.
* My opponents can't cast things if they have few lands.
So I (and many others) brewed Lavinia with land destruction, and cards that forced people to cast stuff for free (Knowledge Pool). This way, Lavinia works by hard-locking or soft-locking my opponents, long enough for me to set up my combo (I used Approach of the Second Sun).
Red_Wyrm:
--- Quote from: Soren841 on March 17, 2019, 11:48:14 pm ---Well first let's assume every cEDH player has fairly large amount of card knowledge from just playing and brewing for so long. We basically already know that we need untappers to break Vannifar, and we know what most of them are (had to search for a few) because of decks like Selvala and Marwyn, and because KikiPod is somewhat played.
So that leaves the wincon. Basically it's split between Hulk and Deadeye shenanigans in the community rn. Everyone just automatically knows what Hulk is, he's the bogeyman basically. So, she's in the colors for Flash Hulk and she is a sac outlet for Hulk that also grabs protection in Archetype of Endurance. We can see all of this already just with what we know, so obviously it didn't take long to build the first drafts. The Deadeye lines are a bit less played and I'm not sure who made the line to put it into Vannifar, but basically you look for ways to abuse her ability that ends in some relatively compact combo. The card search on here makes it easy because I can search an effect that I'm looking for and see what cards do that.
Sorry if I rambled, I suck at writing stuff.. feel free to have me clarify any points lol
--- End quote ---
So I'm going to try and break the thought process down like you described. Let me know of any advice you have.
So the prime speaker let's us tutor for a creature into play if we sac a creature and tap vannifar. The best way to go up the chain is to start with an x drop. Search for an x+1 drop that can untap vannifar, which will ultimately let us search for an x+2 drop which will hopefully lead to an x+3,x+4... etc drop until we find our win con. Note we need the win con to be a creature so we can get it with vannifar. I cant think of a win con without specifically searching for vannifar win con. But hopefully I'll get there eventually. My card knowledge is very limited. Started playing in original innistrad. Never heard of eldrazi before bfz.
What are other commanders cedh players are brewing with to make work, but haven't quite become cedh yet?
Morgantor, the intro thread was great. You should be proud. Also. Eye of the storm for lavania?
Red_Wyrm:
I feel it is important to mention this.
I noticed prime speaker vannifar grabs combo pieces. The problem that I cant find a solution to is that it can only grab one combo piece of you search for a creatures that untap a target on etb (untappong vannifar) until you can chain into your one combo piece. Then, at the end of the chain, you'll have a tapped vannifar and half a combo out. Youd need another way to untap her to get the train going to find the other combo piece on the same turn, as well as another line of on curve untappers. With all this setup, I dont understand how it is competitive.
Thanks guys. I hope that made sense. It did in my head. But my head has let me down in the recent past. Stupid physics midterm.
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