EDH staples?

[Red_Wyrm]

I've never used paradox engine, but I don't think it wins right away. It puts you miles a head and helps win the game, but it doesn't win the game.

Oh, it certainly wins the game. Paired with any form of untappable card advantage it will either win you the game, or put you so far ahead that you are going to win. There are even commanders where their top deck is based entirely around Paradox Engine (Captain Sisay and Arcum Dagsson). With many decks, the turn you cast Paradox Engine is the turn you win.

Although, I wouldn't call it a staple. It really does need to paired with some form of card advantage.

I never thought of that. I just thought mana rocks, but I guess comboed with the cards you mentioned, it works very well. I guess temple bell or any other tap to draw effects paired with 6,7 or 8 mana from mana rocks is a win too since you can cast pretty much your entire deck. It not dream halls where you just empty your hand super fast.

[Leonixious]

I have recently noticed that there are card Staples for specific commanders. For Example, my new favorite commander is Muldrotha, the Gravetide who I've built 3 EDH decks around (Elf Tribal, Toolbox, and Infect). And each of the decks has a Secrets of the Dead, Seal of Primordium, Reclamation Sage, Vessel of Nascency, Myriad Landscape, and Blighted Woodland.

[Izzet808]

I believe by surprise I win, you just mean a win con. I'll admit I've never heard it labeled as surprise I win before.

Win cons will vary, and should be based on your commander. But it's good to have something secret in case things stop working out, like a back-up plan. The rest of your deck should push your strategy. But the rest are really strong includes; at least the fixing definitely. I'd be surprised if you are running blue and don't include Rhystic Study, or running a deck with no Signets.

Also, not saying my way is unarguably the right way. This is just a guideline I found that helps.

And Blightsteel Colossus and Eldrazi are definitley good back ups too

[Red_Wyrm]

I believe by surprise I win, you just mean a win con. I'll admit I've never heard it labeled as surprise I win before.

Win cons will vary, and should be based on your commander. But it's good to have something secret in case things stop working out, like a back-up plan. The rest of your deck should push your strategy. But the rest are really strong includes; at least the fixing definitely. I'd be surprised if you are running blue and don't include Rhystic Study, or running a deck with no Signets.

Also, not saying my way is unarguably the right way. This is just a guideline I found that helps.

And Blightsteel Colossus and Eldrazi are definitley good back ups too

EMRAKUL, THE AEONS TORN BECAUSE WHAT EVEN IS A BAN LIST???

Don't think I was accusing you of being a stuck up prick who thinks his was is indisputably right. Just saying to do you as long as doing you isn't being uncool. But you seem cool.

Good Luck!

[WWolfe]

Smothering Tithe

I've only seen one person mention it (though maybe I overlooked someone else saying it) seems to quickly be becoming one.

[Feyamius]

I have recently noticed that there are card Staples for specific commanders. For Example, my new favorite commander is Muldrotha, the Gravetide who I've built 3 EDH decks around (Elf Tribal, Toolbox, and Infect). And each of the decks has a Secrets of the Dead, Seal of Primordium, Reclamation Sage, Vessel of Nascency, Myriad Landscape, and Blighted Woodland.

I'd add River Kelpie to this list.

[Morganator 2.0]

I normally don't like posting my decklists into forums, but I think I'll make an exception here.

For a fair while now I've been making lists of the best cards in commander, and most of these are staples. I initially made these list for my own use, but I figured that other people might want to use them as well (they are super useful for deck-building). The upside is that I almost always forget a few good cards, so other people help fill in the gaps. Here are some of the lists that I've made.

https://deckstats.net/decks/82803/1234490--list-the-best-lands-for-edh/en

https://deckstats.net/decks/82803/804049--list-the-best-mana-ramp-for-e/en

https://deckstats.net/decks/82803/804405--list-the-best-tutors-for-edh/en

https://deckstats.net/decks/82803/1138763--list-the-best-draw-spells-for/en

https://deckstats.net/decks/82803/802522--list-the-best-stax-cards-for-/en

[Soren841]

I think u went a bit more than "best," almost into the realm of "every single existing..."

[Morganator 2.0]

I think u went a bit more than "best," almost into the realm of "every single existing...

...good card that I could find". That would be a better description, but the titles would be too long.

However, you will notice some notable exclusions that are normally considered staples, such as Bojuka Bog, Diabolic Tutor, Solemn Simulacrum, and Darksteel Ingot. And I will never include a card like Lich's Caress.

[Soren841]

I've been really restraining myself on this thread.. as a fellow cEDH player, I'm sure u can relate lol

[Leonixious]

I have recently noticed that there are card Staples for specific commanders. For Example, my new favorite commander is Muldrotha, the Gravetide who I've built 3 EDH decks around (Elf Tribal, Toolbox, and Infect). And each of the decks has a Secrets of the Dead, Seal of Primordium, Reclamation Sage, Vessel of Nascency, Myriad Landscape, and Blighted Woodland.

I'd add River Kelpie to this list.

I might put it in place of Secrets of the Dead if I didn't have anymore. But when I build a Muldrotha, the Gravetide deck I don't need massive draw like River Kelpie. I prefer to have more controlled Draw like Commander's Sphere, Orazca Relic, Mulldrifter, etc. I've found that too much draw in a Muldrotha, the Gravetide can sometimes be bad, at least in my playgroup who started running more anti-graveyard cards.

And having a 5 CMC creature is easier to destroy (even with the persist) then an enchantment/artifact that has similar abilities, and more costly to recur if sent to the graveyard.

For a point of reference: Muldrotha Tookbox...(See the deck page for breakdown of Combos and Synergies)
https://deckstats.net/decks/121107/1162616-muldrotha-toolbox/en

[Red_Wyrm]

I haven't seen anyone mention chromatic lantern. They might've and I just missed it, but I usually throw it in every 3+ color deck. Maybe a two color deck where I have a lot of cards like Niv-Mizzet, Parun with intensive color requirements. Although I can't think of something as intensive as Niv-Mizzet, Parun that is two colors.

I've been really restraining myself on this thread.. as a fellow cEDH player, I'm sure u can relate lol

Have all the cards we've been naming been that bad? These staples have no place in a competitive setting? It's funny to think that cards many of us throw in every deck are not actually good. Apparently Bojuka Bog is bad. And diabolic tutor, but at two cmc less demonic tutor is great.

[Morganator 2.0]

So before this gets out of hand like it usually does,

Soren841, let me handle this.

Have all the cards we've been naming been that bad? These staples have no place in a competitive setting?

So the short answer is not all of them, but some of them.

You have to remember that there are some cards that are really good in casual commander, but are not in competitive. An example of this would be Avenger of Zendikar. This is a card that can end the game in casual pods, but in a competitive game, by the time you have all the setup and can play Avenger, the game would already be over. But Avenger of Zendikar is not a bad card. Chromatic Lantern sees restricted play in competitive commander, because decks usually have strong enough mana bases that color fixing isn't a problem. But Chromatic Lantern is still a good card, and absolutely should be seen as a staple.

Now for some of the other cards that have been mentioned, there are either strictly better versions. For example, Sliverking mentioned that Cancel is on of their staples. The issue being that Dissolve, Dissipate, and even Broken Concentration are all strictly better. And even then, you generally want your counterspells to be 2 mana or less.

As an aside, a good counterspell package (for both casual and competitive) is Mental Misstep, Swan Song, Arcane Denial, Mana Leak, and Spell Pierce.

So you shouldn't feel bad that you still use a card like Bojuka Bog. This game is a learning experience, and with time, you'll see that grave-hate is only useful if it is instant-speed (Sentinel Totem) or continuous (Rest in Peace). A lot of EDH staples are somewhat overrated, and part of becoming a better commander player is finding those cards.

[Red_Wyrm]

So before this gets out of hand like it usually does,

Soren841, let me handle this.

Have all the cards we've been naming been that bad? These staples have no place in a competitive setting?

So the short answer is not all of them, but some of them.

You have to remember that there are some cards that are really good in casual commander, but are not in competitive. An example of this would be Avenger of Zendikar. This is a card that can end the game in casual pods, but in a competitive game, by the time you have all the setup and can play Avenger, the game would already be over. But Avenger of Zendikar is not a bad card. Chromatic Lantern sees restricted play in competitive commander, because decks usually have strong enough mana bases that color fixing isn't a problem. But Chromatic Lantern is still a good card, and absolutely should be seen as a staple.

Now for some of the other cards that have been mentioned, there are either strictly better versions. For example, Sliverking mentioned that Cancel is on of their staples. The issue being that Dissolve, Dissipate, and even Broken Concentration are all strictly better. And even then, you generally want your counterspells to be 2 mana or less.

As an aside, a good counterspell package (for both casual and competitive) is Mental Misstep, Swan Song, Arcane Denial, Mana Leak, and Spell Pierce.

So you shouldn't feel bad that you still use a card like Bojuka Bog. This game is a learning experience, and with time, you'll see that grave-hate is only useful if it is instant-speed (Sentinel Totem) or continuous (Rest in Peace). A lot of EDH staples are somewhat overrated, and part of becoming a better commander player is finding those cards.

Everything is better at instant speed, for sure. And I see what you mean about grave hate. I had a Bojuka Bog in my hand, and my opponent, sorry I can't remember exactly what he did. He filled up his hand beyond the seven max by a lot, and discarded a million silvers only to then play living end, and my bojuka bog did not help.

I also see your point about the chromatic lantern and avenger of zendikar, but not everyone can afford every good dual land that doesn't unconditionally come in tapped guild gates etc. I find my guild gates just as good as my shock lands on every turn except the turn I play it. I don't run guild gates, literally any other dual land is better, but you get the point. I am fond of the scry lands.

[Soren841]

Nowhere in the definition of staple does it say affordable tho