Helm of the Host Playability

[Red_Wyrm]

Hello everyone!

So I was wondering how we all feel about Helm of the Host. It is my understanding that at least 1 cEDH deck(Godo helm) is based around this deck, and it seems to show up too much in my playgroup. In some decks it is a great card, but it other's it's meh. The thinking in my playgroup is that why not have another copy of your commander? And I get that, I personally would run another card in most edh decks. Like a Helm of the Host on Elesh Norn, Grand Cembiote, okay? That seems too clunky. 7 for the commander and 9 for a single copy? Or in Zacama, Primal cavity. Oh another 9/9, but those are a dime a dozen in EDH. Again I get it in Something like Aurellia or Godo where it goes infinite, but I don't think it should be an auto include like lightning greaves.

[Morganator 2.0]

Helm of the Host is a good card, but the amount of mana it takes to play and equip it is very restrictive, so much that it's not worth it in most decks.

Did someone you know say that it should be an auto-include?

[Soren841]

It's nowhere near an auto include.. neither is lightning greaves

[robort]

It isn't a bad card but it definitely isn't an auto include

[WWolfe]

It's not a bad card if you have a deck that can product a ton of mana without any problem and where having another copy of your commander would be a huge benefit. However even in my decks that can product insane amounts of mana, I don't have a deck where there's not better things to do with that mana.

It's a decent card, but far from an auto-include. As for Lightning Greaves, I use to think it was an auto-include, but not anymore. Often in my playgroup it ends up removed in response to you going to equip it. At least in my playgroup.

[MonteTribal]

Godo, Bandit Warlord goes infinite with helm after 1 attack. With Godo as your commander, it is basically a 1 card wincon if unanswered.
Also works with Combat Celebrant

[Firegriff]

I use it in my Selesnys tokens and Boros mentor decks in Standard (for Shalai, Voice of plenty and Leonin Warleader in both and with Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice in Boros).  I can see it being used with Etrata, the Silencer.  But it is not a wincon on it's own.  Certainly not a bad card, but needs a purpose to fulfill.

[bigdogdch]

I have a commander deck (B/W) with Arvad the Cursed as my commander
I also have 23 other legendary creatures so helm of the host could work for just about any of them.
With some mana ramp with Temple of the false god Karoo Everglades
https://deckstats.net/decks/3358/1153953-legendary-comman/en

[Red_Wyrm]

Helm of the Host is a good card, but the amount of mana it takes to play and equip it is very restrictive, so much that it's not worth it in most decks.

Did someone you know say that it should be an auto-include?

This is exactly how I felt about it. 5 mana for no immediate benefit? That is one of the reasons I am hesitant to play vedalken orrery when I see it in my hand. I would usually prefer to play a card with an immediate impact if I can, but at least the orrery doesn't require another mana investment before it starts to be useful. I feel like if you aren't going to run sakashima the impostor, it isn't worth it to run helm of the host.

They didn't specifically say auto include or staple or anything, but they put it in an Elesh norn, Grand Cembiote deck. I asked their reasoning, and they said it was because there is no reason not to. Two is better than one. He asked, "Wouldn't you rather have two Krenkos? I then proceeded to list several other ways I can make use of that mana, such as Chancellor of the Forge or Kindred Charge. He also thinks that his white deck is the "answer" to my goblin deck since my goblins are smaller than 2/2 most of the time, so it is up to you to decide the validity of his opinion.

So in conclusion, I interpreted it as he thinks there is no downside to it, and it belongs in every commander deck except for a few exceptions.

It's not a bad card if you have a deck that can product a ton of mana without any problem and where having another copy of your commander would be a huge benefit. However even in my decks that can product insane amounts of mana, I don't have a deck where there's not better things to do with that mana.

I agree with this. For 9 mana I wanna be casting expropriate level spells. It seems too clunky in most cases.

As for Lightning Greaves, I use to think it was an auto-include, but not anymore. Often in my playgroup it ends up removed in response to you going to equip it. At least in my playgroup.

From my experience the creature is destroyed in response to the equip because they want to save their artifact removal for stuff like The Immortal Sun or The Chain Veil, and that was my thinking. But I will have to try blowing up the greaves to see if it does better for me.

My thought process is something like this:

Okay my opponent equips Lightning greaves to lord of the void. I can blow lord of the void up now with my anguished unmaking and I don't have to worry about a 7/7 beater stealing my creatures, or I can wait to see who it is going at, but I will have to use my anguished unmaking and my utter end to get rid of it if it comes at me.

Not once does destroying the greaves ever really cross my mind, so I'll definitely try that.

[WWolfe]

I spoke poorly. Usually it is the creature that's destroyed in response to going to equip the Greaves. I should have clarified which "it" I was referring to being destroyed.

[Soren841]

Can I get a tldr for Wyrm's post bc I'm not reading all that

[Morganator 2.0]

tldr:

So I was wondering how we all feel about Helm of the Host. It is my understanding that at least 1 cEDH deck(Godo helm) is based around this deck, and it seems to show up too much in my playgroup. In some decks it is a great card, but it other's it's meh. The thinking in my playgroup is that why not have another copy of your commander? And I get that, I personally would run another card in most edh decks. Like a Helm of the Host on Elesh Norn, Grand Cembiote, okay? That seems too clunky. 7 for the commander and 9 for a single copy? Or in Zacama, Primal cavity. Oh another 9/9, but those are a dime a dozen in EDH. Again I get it in Something like Aurellia or Godo where it goes infinite, but I don't think it should be an auto include like lightning greaves.

[Soren841]

I meant his really long one that he just posted 

[Morganator 2.0]

• The bitch-ass Elesh Norn player is still being a bitch-ass Elesh Norn player.
• The bitch-ass Elesh Norn player said that there is no reason to not use Helm of the Host because it doesn't have a downside.
• Everyone agrees that Helm of the Host's mana cost makes it impractical for most decks.
• Except for the bitch-ass Elesh Norn player, but that's because they're a bitch-ass Elesh Norn player.

Good enough summary?

[WWolfe]

• The bitch-ass Elesh Norn player is still being a bitch-ass Elesh Norn player.
• The bitch-ass Elesh Norn player said that there is no reason to not use Helm of the Host because it doesn't have a downside.
• Everyone agrees that Helm of the Host's mana cost makes it impractical for most decks.
• Except for the bitch-ass Elesh Norn player, but that's because they're a bitch-ass Elesh Norn player.

Good enough summary?