EDH Deck building 101 Question.

[Caveman Clay]

After watching several U Tube video's on building an EDH commander deck . 

Lands             32-35
Mana Ramp    10
Board Wipes    5
Card Draw      10
Single card removal  5
Stand alone cards 20
Enhancers     10
Enablers         5

Question is ?  I'm running blue and red with fist fill of counter spells  (10)  Would they count for single card removal or enablers.

[Morganator 2.0]

I have questions of my own.

What are stand alone cards?
What are enhancers?
What are enablers?

[Izzet-saurus]

I'm not much of an EDH maker my self but as I see it, you start with the commander the only card you can reliably have. from there devise what does this creature do best? Niv-Mizzet the Purun, for example, enables you to collect high amounts of card advantage from instants and sorceries. so going from Niv, you select cards and mechanics that further this Locust God and the other Nivs come to mind and for mechanics storm and the card Thousand Year Storm allows one to cast a lot of spells and by extension deal commander damage outside of combat. Snapcaster Mage and other cards of this type are able to allow you to cast more. from here you can decide as you have suggested controlling or aggressive from here it's a simple matter of casting 21 spells while The Purun in on the field the other Nivs further enable this. and actually, you've got me in a mood to make such a deck. one thing is EDH is a lot slower and a lot less consistent unless you run into a "competitive EDH" deck which can be run as fast as modern. this is my experience in EDH hope it was helpful

[NateJH]

I think it depends on the counterspell, some can be considered "targetted removal", some can be considered "enablers" via protecting your win conditions, but some are versatile enough to fall into both camps.

Naturally then, you want to play as many counterspells that are versatile enough to do both. This means a.) they are cheap enough that you can still have enough mana to use them if needed when playing your win conditions and b.) they aren't super restricted in what they can target. So my rule of thumb for these "versatile" counterspells is anything with a cmc <= 2 that can counter at least any noncreature spell or "higher" (i.e. counter anything).

In my experience have come to consider the following counterspells as "versatile":
[[Counterspell]]
[[Delay]]
[[Arcane Denial]]
[[Negate]]
[[Swan Song]]
[[Force of Will]]
[[Dovin's Veto]]
[[Countersquall]]
[[Mana Drain]]

Usually, this means you can play about 5-7 of the above spells with no issues from color or price restrictions. If you're looking at playing something closer to 10 counterspells, I'd fill the remaining slots with higher impact, "targetted removal" counterspells such as [[Counterflux]], [[Cryptic Command]], [[Mystic Confluence]], [[Dream Fracture]], etc.

[FinalBosco]

I just got into EDH about a year ago and I definitely love it - requires a very different approach to deckbuilding. The mana base is obviously super important, and I wouldn't recommend going as low as 32, unless you're running a lot of mana rocks. I would play 35 in a mono-colored EDH deck and feel okay about it. Most of my EDH decks use around 37 lands + mana rocks and I rarely get screwed or flooded. Sol Ring is pretty much mandatory in any EDH deck, and if you're running a multicolored deck, guild Signets (ie Azorius Signet, Rakdos Signet) are very effective mana rocks as well.

You definitely need to run card draw, because even in draw-heavy EDH decks, I've never drawn more than 50-60 cards in one game. Cantrips are your friend, since they have effects/leave a creature on the board AND draw. You're not going to touch a lot of your deck so it's good to have multiple cards that can have the same effects (ie Parallel Lives and Anointed Procession in a token-heavy GW deck). Cards that give options are also extremely valuable - Dromoka's Command is necessary for me in any GW deck, just as Merciless Eviction is for me in any BW deck. Hero's Downfall replaces Murder any day of the week. Since you won't be drawing a lot of your deck, having one card that can get you out of multiple jams is REALLY good.

Sorry if this is info you already know! Good hunting!

[WWolfe]

I have questions of my own.

What are stand alone cards?
What are enhancers?
What are enablers?

This is pretty much straight off the Command Zone deck building template episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ6m_3J1hjI


I'm curious as to where the 32-35 land number came from. Usually you start with 35-37 and adjust from there.

[Soren841]

I have my very own deckbuilding template that you can find in most of my EDH decks from the last 6 months.

[Morganator 2.0]

Okay.

So stand alone is a card that works on it's own or with its commander.
Enhancers are cards that are stronger with your commander, or make your commander stronger.
Enablers are cards that cover a weakness of your deck.

... I don't like this outline.

So to answer your question in a different way, you really should only be using 3 to 5 counterspells in most cases. This is enough to both protect your boardstate, while sometimes disrupting your opponents (using them as protection is more important). Because counterspells are card disadvantage in commander, you should only be using a high number of counterspells (8 or more) if your commander has some way of providing lots of card draw.

[Soren841]

You can also use more if you're a combo deck and they're defensive counterspells.

[Caveman Clay]

And here is a question around counter spells ?  (Red / Blue Storm Build )  Single card removal  and counter spell. (Same ? )
Should I cut some of these.  Is this fair and balanced Magic

Single Card removal (5)   
1 Aetherize    (protection)
1 Capsize       (When this goes off i can hit 40- 50 spell count this turn) Burn  baby burn..
1 Chaos Warp
1 Pongify
1 Rapid Hybridization

Counterspell  (6)
1 Disallow
1 Dissolve
1 Mana Leak
1 Negate
1 Snap
1 Sphinx of the Final Word

Board wipe (3)
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Evacuation
1 Vandalblast

[WWolfe]

Depending on how creature heavy your meta is Blasphemous Act and Chain Reaction could be good as well for mass removal. Wash Out could also be another option.

As far as your counters, why no Counterspell? A hard counter for two is pretty hard to beat. I also like Swan Song.

[Morganator 2.0]

Removal and counterspells are different. Your first priority with counterspells should be protection. Use them to counter board wipes when you have a good boardstate, use them against stax pieces that will hurt you, and use them against removal spells that target your commander.

Second priority is using them as disruption, when your opponent either does a big move to win the game, or something that will set them up to win the game.

Counterspells are not removal.

[Red_Wyrm]

I feel like deck building shouldn't be in too strict of a template. Sure a predetermined amount of lands and mana rocks is good, but from there just build your deck. Sre you having too much trouble interacting with your opponents? Fix it. Do you have too much interaction and too few win cons? Fix it. But you really only learn from playing the deck.

Also vandalblast is a boardwipe? I mean I guess it is, but when I hear that term, I usually expect creatures to die. If it hits creatures AND other stuff, that's great, but I would classify vandalblast as removal.

[WWolfe]

I'm thinking he meant mass removal more than boardwipe though I guess you can argue that boardwipe can mean more than creature removal. *shrug*

[Soren841]

Worldfire is the only board wipe