Fool's Gold

[Morganator 2.0]

About a year ago there was a topic created to discuss hidden gems; cards that are underrated in certain formats, but can be quite powerful.

https://deckstats.net/forum/index.php/topic,35339.0.html

I want to see what cards are the opposite; overrated cards that aren't as good as most people think they are.

[Red_Wyrm]

Reliquary Tower. Usually utility lands are great. They do something and they give you mana, and usually the colorless factor isn't too important, right? But I would argue that you need colored mana more often than you need a greater than 7 card hand size. If you regularly draw tons of cards and regularly have a hand size over 7, like if that is what your deck does, then absolutely run this, but otherwise I don't think the colorless mana is worth it. Like there is no reason to run it in almost any deck without blue, yet it is such an auto include in most people's decks.

Chromatic lantern is one that bothers me sometimes. Only in 4 or 5 color decks. Two and 3 color (and especially 1 color) decks should never ever run this card. I mean just run darksteel ingot. I ran it in Sen Triplets because, well, read the damn card, but that is the only 3 color deck I can see this in. People play it because then you don't have to worry about which lands tap for what, but what if you carelessly tap all your mana except that evil reliquary tower, thinking you could tap it for blue and stifle Krenko's ability, but then someone Krosan Grip's your chromatic lantern. No more stifle for you. So the benefit you get from it isn't even real because you have to keep track of your mana fixing just in case they destroy it. In 3< color decks, your mana base should be solid enough without this card.

Helm of the Host. It is a 9 mana investment to copy one card, which is most likely your commander. I mean, yeah having two commanders is usually better than one, but for 9 mana? Cast freaking expropriate. If you would not run sakashima the impostor, do'nt run Helm of the Host.

Let's start a fight.

Sunforger. First off, it does not say instant or sorcery. So . Second, if you are running sunforger you are already losing since you're in boros, and you have to dedicate 10+ cards to the instant under 4 cmc slot to fetch with sunforger. Just because you are in red/white doesn't mean you have to run this card. I think you should only run it if you were running those 10+ instants under 5 cmc already.

[WWolfe]

Bouncelands- Don't really ramp you the way people think they do unless it's an additional land play, even then the ramp is questionable. Also become a decent target for Strip Mine when no other tasty choice is on the board.

Temple of the False God- Really not as beneficial as a lot of people think. There's not really a worse feeling than seeing this in your opening hand or as your first draw.

[Judaspriester]

Bojuka Bog - Graveyard hate on a land may seem nice, but it enters tapped and there are only very rare cases where you can play it at the right time.

About the bounce lands: They are somewhat interesting, because they tap for 2 colored mana. but they only really help you, if you got no more lands on your hand. Besides that, I think they are meta dependant. In a casual group they are fine, but as soon as there is more landhate or speed becomes really important, I agree that they shouldn't be used.

About Sunforger: It is a very great niche card. Not more, not less.

[Morganator 2.0]

Oh good, the bounce lands and Bojuka Bog were already mentioned. The bounce lands don't even give mana ramp.

Turn 1: land (1 mana)
Turn 2: bounce land (2 mana)
Turn 3: land (3 mana)

You would get the same result even if you were playing with just basics. Even in land-based decks, I haven't seen a case where the bounce lands performed better for the deck. As for Bojuka Bog, grave-hate is only effective if it is instant-speed, or a continuous effect like Rest in Peace.

Solemn Simulacrum: I still don't understand why people use this. It's bad ramp for 4 mana and bad card draw for 4 mana. If you have some way of recurring it, then you're wasting your recursion.

Acidic Slime: 5 mana sorcery speed is terrible for removal. Green has the best options for artifact and enchantment removal, and Acidic Slime isn't one of them.

[Judaspriester]

Oh good, the bounce lands and Bojuka Bog were already mentioned. The bounce lands don't even give mana ramp.

Turn 1: land (1 mana)
Turn 2: bounce land (2 mana)
Turn 3: land (3 mana)

You would get the same result even if you were playing with just basics. Even in land-based decks, I haven't seen a case where the bounce lands performed better for the deck.

Well, if you have 3 lands on your hand at turn 3, you're right. You would only "ramp" if you would miss a landdrop otherwise.

Besides that, I've already seen land decks with sereval of them, where the player was bouncing the bounce lands in order to generate the full amount of land drops every turn. There may be other (better) options for doing this, but it worked.

/edit: about Acidic Slime, I've got a 3 player game where I managed to get Acidic Slime on the board and was able to attach Followed Footsteps on it. Since the other 2 were already behind, it was NOT funny for them.
In general I agree with you, that its to expensive, but on the other hand, it's kinda flexible (enchantment, artifact, land) and there is a 2/2 deathtouch left after the etb trigger.

I like Solemn Simulacrum in my Marchesa, the Black Rose deck, but one of the main reasons here is, that I'm able to reuse both effects without additional cost.

[crimsonking]

Force of Will
I don't understand why it's so strong in cEDH.
Ok, if your opponent is comboing off on turn 3 and you're tapped out, that's the only way to survive. But in every other situation it's terrible: you 2-for-1 yourself against the combo player, but you also 2-for-0 against the other opponents!
Moreover, I think permission in general is weak in EDH. I'd rather play combo or stax, and even if I'm going to put some counterspells in my deck, I'd prefer stuff like Swan Song all day long.

[Judaspriester]

Force of Will
I don't understand why it's so strong in cEDH.
Ok, if your opponent is comboing off on turn 3 and you're tapped out, that's the only way to survive. But in every other situation it's terrible: you 2-for-1 yourself against the combo player, but you also 2-for-0 against the other opponents!
Moreover, I think permission in general is weak in EDH. I'd rather play combo or stax, and even if I'm going to put some counter spells in my deck, I'd prefer stuff like Swan Song all day long.

Well, I would prefere FoW (if I had one) in order to protect my turn 3 combo, in stead of working against the combo of someone else. If you finish the game, the 2-for-1 doesn't matter anymore.

[crimsonking]

Force of Will
I don't understand why it's so strong in cEDH.
Ok, if your opponent is comboing off on turn 3 and you're tapped out, that's the only way to survive. But in every other situation it's terrible: you 2-for-1 yourself against the combo player, but you also 2-for-0 against the other opponents!
Moreover, I think permission in general is weak in EDH. I'd rather play combo or stax, and even if I'm going to put some counter spells in my deck, I'd prefer stuff like Swan Song all day long.

Well, I would prefere FoW (if I had one) in order to protect my turn 3 combo, in stead of working against the combo of someone else. If you finish the game, the 2-for-1 doesn't matter anymore.

In that scenario, Pact of Negation is far better.
If you have 1 mana open (which I think ain't asking that much) there are tons of better options:
Swan Song
Dispel
Silence
Pyroblast
...

[Red_Wyrm]

Acidic Slime: 5 mana sorcery speed is terrible for removal. Green has the best options for artifact and enchantment removal, and Acidic Slime isn't one of them.

But you are also killing a creature. Not at that moment, but eventually since it has deathtouch. As far as better options, I prefer world breaker. More mana, sure but it comes back and it exiles, so no shenanigans.

[WWolfe]

Swan Song and the like are good (I run Swan Song in almost all my decks that have counters) but are limited in what they can counter. Say you go to tutor for your last combo piece but someone casts Aven Mindcensor in response, Swan Song does you no good whereas FOW or Pact are hard counters.

[Loggiu]

fetch lands and dual lands are too much expensive...the force of will cost is provoked by it's relevance in other formats

[robort]

Mulldrifter, there are better ways to draw cards
Farhven Elf 3 mana for a tapped basic land not worth it
Blind Obedience but Authority of the Consuls works better but agreed nothing wrong with running both
Any of the Guildgates
Any of the lands where they come in tapped and you gain 1 life
Gift of Paradise just to get 3 life for 1 extra mana
Also agree about Helm of the Host. For the cost of what it does, Helm just doesn't do enough for the costs

[Red_Wyrm]

Mulldrifter, there are better ways to draw cards
Farhven Elf 3 mana for a tapped basic land not worth it
Blind Obedience but Authority of the Consuls works better but agreed nothing wrong with running both
Any of the Guildgates
Any of the lands where they come in tapped and you gain 1 life
Gift of Paradise just to get 3 life for 1 extra mana
Also agree about Helm of the Host. For the cost of what it does, Helm just doesn't do enough for the costs

I agree with mulldrifter and Helm of the host (of course) but all the others seem like cards that are simply bad. Not overrated. Do you regularly see those cards?

[Jace27]

I feel that cards like Thousand Year Storm and Mind's Dilation look good on paper, but they are really bad the turn that you play them. The best example of a card like this is Sunbird's Invocation because you play it and people freak out so it either gets removed immediately for cheap or you get killed for playing it. I do feel like Force of Will is good in cEDH because the card disadvantage doesn't matter as long as you don't lose the game. Part of why it is so good isn't because it is the best card for every situation, but because it is flexible. For protecting your turn 3 combo, Pact of Negation and Silence are better, but pact isn't as good at stopping other people from winning early because you just lose on your turn. Dispel is good at winning counter wars like force, but it doesn't do well at stopping the food chain player from winning the game. Swan Song is also a really powerful counterspell in cEDH because it is also both cheap and flexible. In regulate edh using Force of Will for free can sometimes be a trap, but in cEDH it is definitely not fool's gold.