B&R and The Official Commander Philosophy Document

[FinalBosco]

I got you Wolfe -

Commander Banned List Update, 8 July 2019

ADMIN
Philosophy Document Update

CARDS
Paradox Engine is banned
Iona, Shield of Emeria is banned
Painter’s Servant is unbanned

RULES
No changes.

The Philosophy Document update coalesces the important elements of how we think about the format into a concise and easily-digestible set of ideals, answering the question “what is Commander?” We haven’t changed the underlying philosophy of Commander: it’s specifically intended to be something other than a tournament format in which players consider each other’s experiences alongside their own. You’ll notice that we’ve eliminated categories for banning cards. We’d found that many folks misinterpreted them as hard criteria for banning as opposed the guidelines we always considered them. There might be some common threads among banned cards, but the primary reason cards get put on the list is that they challenge the positive experience we want to promote.

Paradox Engine is a card that has proven to be intensely problematic. Not only does it provide easy wins seemingly out of nowhere, it has demonstrated the potential to unintentionally wreck games. Easily inserted into any deck, it combines with cards which players already have heavy incentives to play, generating a great deal of mana with virtually no deck building cost. While we don’t ban cards which are only problematic if you build around them, Paradox Engine has clearly demonstrated that it doesn’t need to be built around to be broken.

Iona, Shield of Emeria creates a negative experience for many players without the benefit of a positive application. We had previously considered its high mana cost sufficient to keep it from getting played, but deeper investigation demonstrated many ways of getting it onto the battlefield without paying that cost. Iona, Shield of Emeria is also an exemplar as the type of card which creates an experience we wish to discourage, namely shutting players out of games.

Painter’s Servant is a card that’s been discussed for a long time and it’s time to take off the shackles. We feel as though there are now more weird and fun uses for the card than there are dangerous ones. The card will provide deck builders with some additional paths to explore in expressing their creativity.

Many thanks to the Commander Advisory Group for the input and insights into putting together this update. Their presence continues to add great value to the format.

[WWolfe]

Thanks Finalbosco!

[Morganator 2.0]

These two threads have been merged. The conversation is basically going to go in the same direction for both.

Hey Soren841, I remember back when the Commander Advisory Group was made, you said that someone on there was familiar with cEDH. Who was it?

[Soren841]

Idk I forget I just know there was at least one.. sadly they are either dumb or ignored

[WWolfe]

Idk I forget I just know there was at least one.. sadly they are either dumb or ignored

Here's the list of members, maybe seeing the names will remind you.

Rachel Agnes
Shivam Bhatt
Ron Foster
Josh Lee Kwai
Charlotte Sable
Adam Styborski

[Soren841]

It MIGHT have been Adam? I feel like it was a guy but idk

[ApothecaryGeist]

Totally agree with banning Iona.  I've thought she needed to be banned for quite some time now.

I understand the need to ban Paradox Engine.  EDH is already a format that abuses ETB triggers.  I am *very* shocked that the RC actually did ban it.  I didn't see that one coming.  But I understand it.

Painter's Servant - I'm neutral.  I've heard the talk.  I wouldn't have unbanned it.  But, again, I understand the desire to try.

[Morganator 2.0]

I'm pretty sure Painter's Servant was initially banned because of Iona, Shield of Emeria.

[WWolfe]

Command Zone has an episode that dropped a little bit ago discussing the bannings & unbanning. It's interesting to note that Josh (one of the hosts if you've never watched it) is on the CAG and was against banning both cards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEoQepKWXQE

[Morganator 2.0]

This has my attention. I'll try to watch it.

I also just realized that C19 is coming up soon, and it will be hilarious if either Iona or Paradox Engine got a reprint.

Post-watch edit: From what I can tell, the Commander Advisory Group didn't have much of a say in the bannings. Josh disapproved of the bannings, and it sounded like he wasn't the only person that thought this.

Also, at one point in the video, they mentioned that two cards ranked higher than Paradox Engine and Iona for cards people wanted to see banned, and that they said this in a previous episode. Anyone know what those two cards were?

[Soren841]

Flash and Hulk?

[Varatius]

The cag is an advisory group they in the end have no say what gets banned/unbanned or in rule changes they are there more as a group of people that play commander alot or are big names in the commander world that just give recommendations to the rules committee however I read somewhere that there was a discussion about a play testing group for commander that if it ever becomes a thing will have more influence I wish I remember where I read that to show you guys but sadly it was a while ago and truly hope it becomes a thing.   Now as for paradox engine I understand the banning however iona is nowhere near as abusable as painters servant and only sees large play in decks that can easily cheat it out or decks that just need a way to slow others down and is only broken if your playgroup runs mostly monocolor decks so I would've been happier with iona staying unbanned and leaving painters servant banned I do believe flash should get banned because paradox engine is banned as they are around the same power level all be it flash is strictly better in most decks.

[WWolfe]

Also, at one point in the video, they mentioned that two cards ranked higher than Paradox Engine and Iona for cards people wanted to see banned, and that they said this in a previous episode. Anyone know what those two cards were?

He was referring to an episode that'll come out later this week. The second part of their "Commander Summit" episode in which they posed questions about things pertaining to the format to something like 30-35 other content creators, members of the RC and CAG. They haven't shown the part they were talking about on people's opinions of the bannings. When they show that part I'll try to remember to post it here so we can see how that stacked up.

[Xaarvaxus]

Idk I forget I just know there was at least one.. sadly they are either dumb or ignored

Here's the list of members, maybe seeing the names will remind you.

Rachel Agnes
Shivam Bhatt
Ron Foster
Josh Lee Kwai
Charlotte Sable
Adam Styborski

Rachel Agnes definitely has a serious cEDH bent.  Her set reviews usually leaned heavily in favor of a card's competitive application. 

[WWolfe]

So has anyone's opinion on the bannings and unbanning changed now that there's been 24 hours to digest it?