cEDH ban speculations

[WizardSpartan]

If anyone has already seen Oracle Hulk I'm brewing my own variant. I didn't come up with it but I'll find a way to make it my own

As soon as I saw Thassa's Oracle spoiled, the first 2 things that came in my mind were:
1. It's (arguably) a better Laboratory Maniac, in terms of the role it fulfills in cEDH.
2. It makes Flash Hulk so consistent and resistant to hate that almost certainly either Flash or Protean Hulk will eat a ban. I actually read into the topic of banning cards to make cEDH more interesting, rather than just a play Fish Hulk or beat Fish Hulk meta, and I think that Protean Hulk is the card deserving of a ban. If the committee just bans flash, then other more all-in protean hulk decks will rise to dominance. I think they need to cut the snake off at the head.
Would you agree Soren (and other cEDH players reading this)?

[Soren841]

The RC will probably ban Oracle because they're stupid

[WizardSpartan]

Hmm I don't know much about the RC (haven't read much of what they have said in general) so I don't know how connected they are to Wizards of the Coast, but I think it would be a very bad move to ban a card right after it is released.

[Morganator 2.0]

This was starting to get off-topic of Theros spoilers, so I've made this a new topic.

I think that Protean Hulk is fine without Flash. It's a strong card and it enables combos, but they can be stopped. In decks like Varolz, the scar-striped it wins games, but there are ways for most decks to stop the combo.

When Flash is added in, there are less ways to stop the combo. It requires an answer sooner, and once Flash resolves, there really is no way good way to stop the combo.

[WizardSpartan]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RH-XlYHeBkan4V209D8tVWkrYkRJfZhCe5ild3vQQ14/edit

Here's the document I read that changed my opinion from ban Flash to Ban Protean Hulk. The problem is that if the RC bans Flash, a non-blue Hulk deck, such as the aforementioned Varolz, the Scar-Striped, will become the new tier 1 and that it will be strong enough to cause the later ban of hulk. I think they should just ban hulk and get it over with.
On another note, I think with the addition of Thassa's Oracle, Demonic Consultation and Tainted Pact should be under consideration for banning, as it is easily the strongest of the three lines for consultation and pact.

[Soren841]

They need to unban Engine and ban Flash. Varolz will not be tier 1

[Danky]

No F*cking WAY engine is getting unbanned. Don't even breath that mess at me.

[Soren841]

Great first impression. I'll chalk you up under people who know nothing

[Morganator 2.0]

Don't berate, educate. If someone is showing even a slight interest in a topic with "cEDH" in the title I'm willing to encourage them.

That article is a really good read. The passion the writer expresses is identical to most of the cEDH community. They ended off the article with stating 3 cards that should be banned; Flash, Demonic Consultation, and Tainted Pact.

I agree with this. Flash is trouble because of Protean Hulk, so let's give I the Legacy treatment. Varolz hulk won't become tier 1 with a Flash ban. Here's the general game-plan for Varolz.

Turn 1: Mana Dork (Birds of Paradise, let's say)
Turn 2: Cast Varolz, or some other sacrifice outlet.
Turn 3: Get Protean Hulk. This usually involves a card like Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, or a combination of Entomb+Reanimate. Protean Hulk gets Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Walking Ballista for the win.

It's a predictable game-plan. There is no reason to play Varolz unless they are about to combo, so you know when you need to prepare your counter-plan. The Protean Hulk combo itself is also sorcery-speed, and can be easily interrupted with grave-hate or creature removal.

Tainted Pact and Demonic Consultation getting banned will weaken a bunch of decks, but not straight-out kill them. Food Chain will get debuffed, as will any decks that use Jace, Wielder of Mysteries as a backup plan. These decks will still be strong, but other decks lower on the tier list will have a better fighting chance against them, allowing for a more diverse meta.

[Soren841]

I don't think Pact and Consultation are strong enough to warrant a ban. We should focus more on banning Flash and unbanning about half the banlist and then see what the meta is like

[Aetherium Slinky]

Reddit cries for Nyxbloom Ancient to be banned. I think it's hilarious how little people talk about the Oracle considering how it reduces some combos by an entire card (pun half-intended).

[WizardSpartan]

Here's my thought process:
Cards that do format-warping things and aren't being used as intended deserve bans.
Flash is both. It is obvious that Wizards' plan for Flash was to use it to give a creature flash. Also, (from what I've read) cEDH players are given 2 options:
1. Play Flash Hulk
2. Build your deck around beating Flash Hulk
It's very apparent that this is toxic and unhealthy for the format.
About Pact and Consultation:
They aren't format warping yet, but they are being used not as intended and create 2 card game-winning combos. Food Chain decks use Demonic Consultation to find Food Chain and exile Misthollow Griffin, etc. Jace, Wielder of Mysteries (and now Oracle of Thassa at 2 less mana) use both to just win the game. When Wizards first printed those cards all those years ago, they wanted to make the exile part a downside, which is not necessarily true.
Reddit calling for Nyxbloom Ancient to be banned is a joke. They see any good card and immediately call for bans. It's 7 mana and has been spoiled for literally 1 or 2 days.
I think Paradox Engine does deserve a ban, as it fits into decks of any color and brings about very easy wins.
With that said, I think Flash, Demonic Consultation, and maybe Tainted Pact bans will shake up the format, introducing new strategies to the spotlight.

[Soren841]

Paradox Engine is not even a very good card. It's good in 2 decks and that's it. Who gives a shit about using the card "as intended?" Magic would be a pretty shitty game if u could only use cards in the way they were originally intended. If it isn't breaking the format it doesn't matter.

[Danky]

every single cedh deck runs rocks, every deck with rocks wants paradox, every deck then runs paradox. It's boring and too easy. Moving on.

[Soren841]

Sorry you're wrong, you still know nothing and clearly don't want to learn. I'm not discussing anything with you.