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Author Topic: Discussion over Heliod's Intervention in EDH  (Read 166 times)

GolgariFTW

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Discussion over Heliod's Intervention in EDH
« on: January 14, 2020, 06:41:16 pm »
So I want to have a discussion about the new card Heliod's Intervention vs other white artifact & enchantment removal spells in EDH, particularly:
Disenchant
Return to Dust
Crush Contraband

How do people compare it to the above listed spells? I think it's better, as both options scale well with mana (unlike the first option of Thassa's Intervention) and both options are relevant to EDH.
The major comparison I'm making in my head is Intervention at x = 2 vs. Return to Dust. One is at instant speed and can destroy 2 artifacts/enchantments or gain a bit of life, the other is sorcery speed and can exile two artifacts/enchantments. I think, in most metas, Heliod's Intervention is better because of its flexibility in being both instant speed, having an x cost, and having 2 options.
Would all you other EDH players agree?

ApothecaryGeist

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Re: Discussion over Heliod's Intervention in EDH
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2020, 07:48:34 pm »
It is merely another tool in the toolbox.  Heliod's Intervention is not "strictly better" than any of the other mentioned spells.  It really depends on what you are trying to accomplish with this particular slot in your deck.


If your goal is to remove one pesky artifact/enchantment as a combat trick, then you only have to leave 2 mana open for DisenchantHeliod's Intervention (HI) would cost 3 for this.


If you want to EXILE some pesky artifacts/enchantments, then Return to Dust or Crush Contraband are good options.  HI would cost the same mana for two targets, but will only destroy, not exile.


If you're looking to board wipe of all artifacts and/or enchantments, then Austere Command may be the way to go for you.  At 6 mana for the "destroy all artifacts and enchantments" effect, this is probably the best comparison for the utility of HI.  And then it is a bit dependent upon your meta, your deck, and your personal play style.  How many artifacts will you want to destroy.  How many artifacts will you desire to stick around.  Is it worth that X spell over the 6 mana Austere Command to get this effect?


This is much akin to deciding between Oblivion Ring and Quarantine Field.  Neither is strictly superior.  Both are valid options based on player choice.
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GolgariFTW

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Re: Discussion over Heliod's Intervention in EDH
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2020, 09:23:12 pm »
While what you have said is true, I'm merely curious which which people consider best with no knowledge of what your opponents will be playing. Certain cards are better for certain metas, obviously.

Xaarvaxus

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Re: Discussion over Heliod's Intervention in EDH
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 02:30:25 am »
With a new Theros set about to hit, in a vacuum, the need to exile an enchantment will be higher as new and shiny indestructible enchantment gods make their way into a large number of decks.  In the short term HI may not catch on in EDH overall, but certain decks, say a gain life theme, may still want this over/in addition to Crush Contraband, etc.  The double white in the CC means, at least for me, it won't ever be competing with Crush as I tend to use that in tri+ color decks off a splash.  Maybe white based stax decks will want HI for a Vandalblast / By Force type effect to get the initial rush of opponent mana rocks off the board to let their strategy take hold.

As a side note, I personally haven't found a big life gain spell does that much, especially an X spell like this, as you spend your turn gaining life [or holding up mana for end of turn cast] that usually just gets taken away [and then some] before your next turn [assuming you even get one].  Tacking it onto a mass disenchant effect at least takes away the opportunity cost of taking up a card slot.  However, I don't see myself ever putting HI into a deck for the life gain aspect.  It could make it into the deck list but the life gain likely won't be a consideration.


robort

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Re: Discussion over Heliod's Intervention in EDH
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 02:04:58 pm »
Is it better? No because white isn't really much for putting things into X spells. If I was going to use Heliod's Intervention then at most I am paying is 2 into X. The other disadvantage I get with Heliod's Intervention is that it only destroy's compared to exile. With any type of recursion there is a possibility any of my opponents can bring back their stuff if I destroy it compared to if I exile it. It lessons the chance of bringing it back if things are exiled
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GolgariFTW

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Re: Discussion over Heliod's Intervention in EDH
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 06:14:05 pm »
Alright that's fair. I'm beginning to come back around on Return to Dust.

Edit: Also, there's somebody in my playgroup playing mean cards like Karmic Justice, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, etc. so in my specific meta, the exile is probably better.