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Author Topic: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)  (Read 594 times)

WizardSpartan

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Kess, Dissident Mage

Hey, it's ya boi.

I am stepping as far out of my comfort zone as possible with a Grixis Spellslinger deck. I built this because of the discussion started by Ziabo. I saw a few cards that seemed cool and decided to build it. I'm working on some pretty severe budget restraints, so no shocklands and above in terms of the mana base. Also, I'm not really interested in combos like a Forbidden Tutor + Laboratory Maniac effect (I'm not anywhere near a cEDH level of playgroup, so I don't want to do anything too crazy).

Overall, I'm just curious how viable High Tide and various non-infinite storm win cons are for my budget. Obviously, if people have more good counterspells, cantrips, etc. please tell me. I look forward to hearing responses from you experienced people.

Edit: I made some changes to make what I'm trying to say a little better. I created this post late at night right before I went to bed, so it was a little hard to follow.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 04:30:21 pm by GolgariFTW »

Red_Wyrm

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2020, 06:47:48 am »

Overall, I'm just curious how viable High Tide and various non-infinite storm win cons are for my budget. Obviously, if people have more good counterspells, cantrips, etc. please tell me. I look forward to hearing responses from you experienced people.

Sorry to break it to you, my fiance, but storm is essentially impossible to budget. Although if you want to budget it, I would go with a bunch of a ritual effects, free spells like frantic search and spells that reduce cost like Helm of Awakening. Then wheel effects to keep refilling your hand. You should also note that cards like Increasing Vengeance don't "cast" the copies. They are created on the stack, and casting is the act of putting it onto the stack. If you are copying a spell from a zone other than the stack, like memory plunder does, copying it from the graveyard, then it will cast the copy by putting it onto the stack. I also think memory plunder and similar cards specify "cast" in the card text. The expertise cycle might not be bad to consider since you get 2 spells for the price of 1. Yahenni's Expertise, Baral's Expertise and Kari Zev's Expertise.

Yeah, okay, budget.
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WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2020, 04:28:01 pm »
Thanks, honey, for the honest response. Does this mean I should just rely more on Young Pyromancer effects to win the game? I don't like infinite combos because of the level of my playgroup and how repetitive it is to win with them, so all I'm seeing in terms of ways to win is storm and Young Pyro effects. Are there any I'm missing?

Also, I'm aware that spells like Increasing Vengeance don't cast the copies. It's just such a fun and synergistic card with Kess, and I love cards that click with its commander. Also, it's just really funny when combined with certain cards (Ignite the Future, Finale of Revelation, etc.)

Yahenni's Expertise is definitely going in. I've been looking for a smaller boardwipe, and that's perfect. Doesn't kill Kess, allows me to get a cantrip for free, and works very nicely from the graveyard, too. T4 Kess into T5 Expertise, casting Preordain for free, then casting Preordain from my graveyard using Kess. Heehee very nice. The other two, though, seem meh.


I own Vamp Tutor and put it in every black deck I own/want to own just to flex on my playgroup :P

TLDR: If storm is out as a primary win condition for my budget level and infinite combos are out because of personal philosophy, how would y'all suggest I win? It doesn't need to be super efficient, I just don't want to durdle into a loss.

WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2020, 04:51:42 pm »
I went ahead and made space for Yahenni's Expertise, cutting some subpar cards and adding in a few Young Pyro effects for good measure.


Revision 2

Added/removed cards:
-1 Ashiok, Dream Render
-1 Gamble
-1 Mission Briefing
+1 Murmuring Mystic
+1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
+1 Yahenni's Expertise

Morganator 2.0

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2020, 04:55:21 pm »
Storm isn't impossible on a budget, it's just harder, which you may have noticed from reading Ziabo's thread. If you don't like infinite combos storm is perfect.

If you want an "easier" storm deck, I suggest trying Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. Giving your spells cascade let's you rack up the storm count easier. The difference is that Yidris has a huge element of randomness, and wheel effects are even more important.

WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2020, 05:08:41 pm »
Storm isn't impossible on a budget, it's just harder, which you may have noticed from reading Ziabo's thread. If you don't like infinite combos storm is perfect.
That's what I was thinking. It also seems more fun for me personally.

If you want an "easier" storm deck, I suggest trying Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. Giving your spells cascade let's you rack up the storm count easier. The difference is that Yidris has a huge element of randomness, and wheel effects are even more important.

I'm more interested in building a Kess deck, if that makes sense. I'm trying to play a deck built around instants & sorceries, as I am very accustomed to playing G/x (often creature-based) decks. I might consider building a Yidris cascade storm deck sometime in the future, though.

Ziabo

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2020, 11:25:08 pm »
Looks pretty fun!

I tried the wizard dude (wizards +2/+1 and flying guy) but never really could get him to go off. Heavy cast with a big bullseye on him.
I suggest getting Baral, Chief of compliance if possible.

But other than that as for a bugeted storm it looks pretty decent for casual play.

WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2020, 11:49:58 pm »
I did have Baral in here, but I took him out. It was definitely a mistake, as he should be in here. I just played a game where I got Aetherflux Reservoir + Thousand Year Storm, but proceeded to durdle and concede out of sheer frustration. I should probably find a different avenue of winning. Ugh, everything is so much harder when you can't just kill your opponents with creatures (looking at you Craterhoof baby)

Ziabo

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2020, 12:05:33 am »
Yeah def put him back in. Draw load grave and ramp. Cannot go wrong here.

That's the cool thing about magic though. So many ways to kill an opponent sometime brains over brawn sometimes brawn over brains.

I need to go to my LGS and start playtesting my deck so I can help you out on what needs to be done in a storm build so I can be of more help.

WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2020, 12:36:59 am »
Alrighty let's try this. Tell me what ya'll think of the cuts. I already own the scepter and decided that because the dramatic scepter combo wasn't necessarily an auto-win with Kess, I can include it and not feel too bad.


Revision 4

Added/removed cards:
-1 Abrade
-1 Echo of Eons
-1 Forbidden Alchemy
-1 Izzet Charm
-1 Murmuring Mystic
-1 Saheeli, Sublime Artificer
+1 Baral, Chief of Compliance
+1 Dramatic Reversal
+1 Finale of Promise
+1 Helm of Awakening
+1 Isochron Scepter
+1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries

Ziabo

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2020, 02:17:52 am »
Glad you found the Dramatic Scepter combo :)

I played Kess with the spell doubling and at the time it seems good and fun but to make it truely effective I would just build a deck around that theme.

As for adding Jace, Wielder of Mysteries how are you milling yourself out to make him a wincon? I'd add Ad nauseam and/or Demonic Consultation to secure that win (Unless I'm overlooking something)

Finale of Revalation : I'm not sold on this. you want to either mill yourself out or have graveyard stacked and this negates both of those. If you want a massive draw spell Blue Sun's Zenith would be your friend. I know max hand size is great but there's a mana rock that does that for you Thought vessel I believe?

I love Yahenni's Exertise in this deck personally 4 mana to play what could be a board wipe and another spell for free? gonna see about swapping Anger of the Gods for this in my Kessy

Also what was the reasoning for not having Demonic Tutor in here? I see a vampiric tutor (hell of a lot more $$$)


Btw according to Morganator 2.0 Chain of Vapor is a wincon not removal XD

WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2020, 04:19:37 am »
Right now, Jace is in because he's just a solid planeswalker (draws cards & fills graveyard) and can ensure I don't lose by decking myself in late, durdly games. Ad Nauseam is a little above my budget right now, but is at the top of the list once I get to that point. Consultation is a no go for me. Its not super cheap, pretty much only serves the purpose of winning directly, only works with a Lab Man effect, and just isn't my type of win.

A friend altered a Finale of Revelation for me for my birthday, and I've been trying to fit it into various decks of mine. I have already taken Echo of Eons out because of the same reasons you have listed, so I guess I should just bite the bullet and take Finale out. If only it didn't shuffle my gy into my library, I would keep it in. Thought Vessel is an extremely good card that I originally excluded because it's ~$9, but I think it warrants the slot, especially with Dramatic Scepter a part of the deck.

Yeah my fiancee Red_Warm made the very good suggestion of Yahenni's Expertise. It's even more fun when you copy it a few times with Increasing Vengeance from the graveyard, casting 3 cantrips fo free.

I already own a Vampiric Tutor, but I don't own a Demonic Tutor and can't afford one.

I'm not on the level of competitivity where doing the whole net positive mana rock bounce for a land is ever a good idea.

CleanBelwas

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2020, 10:23:35 am »
Just throwing out another alternative option in case it's one that interests you.

Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain is a storm deck that can be built very budget friendly.

Artifact cost reducers and 0-2 costed artifacts are plentiful and for the most part can be picked up for very little real world money.

I literally smooshed a deck together that was made of a few key pieces and every cheap artifact I owned and it worked brilliantly. The good thing about it is that it doesn't matter what the artifacts do, you only care about drawing more cards so you can play more artifacts to draw more cards to play more artifacts.

Then, of course, you can actually tune it and put in some effort and choose your artifacts with care and attention. Tormod's Crypt, Claws of Gix, Spellbook etc.

I appreciate you said that you wanted go down the instant/sorcery route, which is totally fair enough, but thought I'd highlight this as an option as it's something I have personal experience with building on a budget and can vouch for it's effectiveness.

Also, full disclaimer, I fucking hate playing that deck. I was super excited when I built it and my god is the turn you go off a pain in the ass. Spending 10 minutes to cast 50 spells and still not being 100% sure if you're going to win until it happens while your friends sit there and wonder why they bothered turning up. Eurgh. There is a lot to be said for the efficiency of infinite combos. "I demonstrate my loop. Can anyone stop it? No? Cool. I win. Let's play again" sometimes feels better than "I think I win, but let's take 20 minutes to find out".

WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2020, 02:24:45 pm »
Hehe, well my first EDH deck was a Marwyn, the Nurturer deck where I played the game of "can I draw Concordant Crossroads and a big boi like Craterhoof Behemoth, or do I just empty my hand onto the field, pass, get boardwiped, and lose." Jhoira seems like a much more efficient combo deck, and I'll build her soon.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 06:28:34 pm by GolgariFTW »

WizardSpartan

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Re: Hoppin Out of My Comfort Zone with Kess Storm (Would Love Some Help)
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2020, 06:28:12 pm »
Jace isn't worth the money for me here, and Abrade is a solid card, so it's going back in :P


Revision 7

Added/removed cards:
-1 Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
+1 Abrade