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Author Topic: exotic orchard  (Read 345 times)

Morale

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exotic orchard
« on: June 29, 2020, 05:49:18 am »
One of the guys in my play group is very insistent that exotic orchard cannot generate mana outside of your commanders color identity.

It was my understanding that, while you cannot include lands outside of your commanders color identity, you can still generate it if something tells you that you can.

Everything that i can find (on deployment on a ship so most official sites are blocked..) says that this USED to be a rule but no long is.

Can anyone tell me if i am correct in my assumption that i can generate mana outside of my commanders color identity?

CleanBelwas

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 09:33:23 am »
Yea you can produce mana outside of your commanders colour identity.

This never used to be the case though, which could be where your guy is coming from. It used to be that if you had a way of producing mana outside of your commanders identity it would turn into colourless mana, but they changed it when the Eldrazi came out is it made it way too easy to produce colourless mana.

MustaKotka

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 10:58:06 am »
This is also somewhat of a requirement for a deck like Sen Triplets because they don't have the "you may spend mana as though it was of any colour" clause that many modern cards have. Sen Triplets decks usually have lots of sources that can produce mana outside of their colour identity.

WWolfe

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2020, 01:34:36 pm »
CleanBelwas is right, that use to be the rule but it was changed several years ago. Like 2016 I think.

ETA- Here's a link to an article on the Wizards site which addresses this (it's under the Commander in 2016 section)

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/ways-play/catching-commander-changes-2017-08-15

Quote
You can now make mana of any color, not limited to your commander's color identity. Removing a flavorful (if sometimes confusing rule) helps streamline the format and makes borrowing opponents' permanents more exciting since you can now pay for abilities and costs you couldn't before.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 06:03:57 pm by WWolfe »
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Mynus

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 08:36:45 pm »
Slightly off topic discussion...

Without knowing the rulebook very well still being within my first year of learning magic/commander, Commander rules dictate you can't include cards outside of your commanders colors, but lands don't have a color, which is why the don't get destroyed with a wipe that says destroy all colored/multicolored permanents. So couldn't you technically have whatever land you want?

WizardSpartan

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 08:46:48 pm »
Slightly off topic discussion...

Without knowing the rulebook very well still being within my first year of learning magic/commander, Commander rules dictate you can't include cards outside of your commanders colors, but lands don't have a color, which is why the don't get destroyed with a wipe that says destroy all colored/multicolored permanents. So couldn't you technically have whatever land you want?
A card's color and its color identity are 2 different things. You are right, most (if not all) lands are colorless, meaning that none of them have a mana cost or color indicator telling the user what color that card is.

The color identity of the card is different.
Quote
903.4. The color identity of a card is the color or colors of any mana symbols in that card’s mana cost or rules text, plus any colors defined by its characteristic-defining abilities or color indicator.
Source: https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Color_identity

Basic lands have the ability to tap for a single colored mana (for example, Swamp has the ability {T}: Add {B}). This means that they have color identities. Therefore, you can't run basic lands that tap for mana outside of your Commander's color identity

Mynus

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2020, 08:50:37 pm »
Thanks for the clarification.

Where are you getting this 903.4 rule from? As far as official rules go, I only see what is on the commander site.

CleanBelwas

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 08:54:13 pm »
Hey Mynus, good question.

The reason is that commander deck building concerns itself with colour identity rather than just colour. They're are similar, but slightly distinct.

As a general rule, a cards colour is determined by whatever is in the top right of the card, which is why lands don't have a colour as such.

Colour identity is defined by any mana pips present on the card, which is why different coloured activated abilities etc. can make a cards identity different to it's colour.

Basics, no matter what they look like, functionally essentially have "tap: add {colour} to your mana pool". They don't always display it that way for aesthetic reasons but they're so intrinsic to the game it doesn't matter. From a rules perspective, that's what it says.

That means their colour identity is the same as the mana they produce. Same for dual lands/guildgates etc.

Lands like exotic orchard, command tower and even fetch lands can be played in any deck. They have no mana symbols and so no colour identity.

Edit: a bit of further information.

It's worth noting that Commander (and it's variants such as brawl or oathbreaker) is the only format that cares about colour identity. The idea of a cards colour identity was brought about specifically for commander.

Also, only mana symbols present within a cards frame and rules text count towards it's identity (which includes casting cost and what not). Any mana symbols that appear in reminder text do not count towards it's colour identity, which is why it is OK to run Crypt Ghast in mono black. This is something I've tripped up on myself several times so thought it was worth mentioning.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 09:04:03 pm by CleanBelwas »

WWolfe

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2020, 08:55:01 pm »
Thanks for the clarification.

Where are you getting this 903.4 rule from? As far as official rules go, I only see what is on the commander site.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/game-info/gameplay/rules-and-formats/rules

I'll warn ya though, the PDF version is 242 pages.
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Mynus

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2020, 09:03:03 pm »
Basic lands have the ability to tap for a single colored mana (for example, Swamp has the ability {T}: Add {B}). This means that they have color identities. Therefore, you can't run basic lands that tap for mana outside of your Commander's color identity
Basics, no matter what they look like, functionally essentially have "tap: add {colour} to your mana pool". They don't always display it that way for aesthetic reasons but they're so intrinsic to the game it doesn't matter. From a rules perspective, that's what it says.

Thanks a lot guys, this helps so much. This helps me understand because they do have a mana symbol in their rules text, just that rules text is never actually shown.

And thanks for the link to the extensive PDF doc.

Soren841

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2020, 02:09:15 pm »
One trick is that cards like Crypt Ghast are mono colored because the mana symbols for extort are in the reminder text. Fun fact of the day
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WWolfe

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Re: exotic orchard
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2020, 04:39:05 pm »
One trick is that cards like Crypt Ghast are mono colored because the mana symbols for extort are in the reminder text. Fun fact of the day

That's true, mana symbols in reminder text doesn't count towards color identity.
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