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Author Topic: Intro to cEDH  (Read 2045 times)

Morganator 2.0

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Intro to cEDH
« on: May 26, 2023, 08:41:25 pm »
Quote from: You, just now
But Morganator, there's already a thread called "Intro to cEDH".

Yes I know, but that topic is very out of date. Flash Hulk was still legal at the time. Since then we've had a lot of new commanders and staples printed, so this subject is in need of an update. A big one. This time around, I'm going to focus more on pointing users to useful resources, rather than trying to compile and update those resources myself and then leaving a jumbled mess in my wake. If you want to get into cEDH or have been curious about what things look like at the strongest level, this is where you start. So cancel your plans, grab yourself a snack, and get comfy. This is gonna be a long post.

Disclaimer

For reasons that escape me, cEDH (and by extension, its players) receives a lot of vitriol. Historically speaking, the discussions on Deckstats are not an exception. While the opinions of cEDH and its players has improved a lot since I began playing, there are still cases where people take offence towards individuals that want to play a casual format as powerfully as possible. I'm not against people arguing (it's expected to happen on a forum site) but I am against personal attacks and insults made against other users. This game is for everyone, so play nice.

Table of Contents
About cEDH
A "Typical" cEDH Game
Deck Building Basics
Mana Ramp
Card Draw
Removal
Protection
Tutors
Combos
Stax
Lands

Threat Assessment
Making Combos
Be Unique
Efficiency
Limit Dead Cards
Layer Your Combos
Resilience

Stopping Combos
Using Stax
Easy to Build Decks
Additional Resources
Frequently Asked Questions
Closing Remarks




About cEDH

cEDH is the short-hand for "Competitive Commander". This name is an unfortunate misnomer which leads to confusion so let's go over what cEDH is and isn't.
  • cEDH is multiplayer, not 1 vs 1
  • cEDH follows all of the same rules as the Commander format, including the banlist. It is not its own separate format, merely a different way of playing.
  • Saying "I'm playing cEDH" is the pre-game discussion. This is sometimes why players will erroneously say "There is no pre-game discussion in cEDH". It exists, it's just a lot shorter.
  • Despite having "competitive" in the name, there has yet to be a Wizards sanctioned tournament for cEDH.
  • There are however, a bunch of third-party tournaments both online and off.
  • Proxies are nigh-universally accepted, although there are times where they are not. Store-rules will vary.
  • Political plays are rare, mostly because everyone is trying to win so distrust runs high.
  • Because anything goes, players rarely get salty. Armageddon is fair play. You need to be able to keep your cool when facing these decks.

The core principle of cEDH is to play the strongest decks as possible. During deckbuilding, you need to choose high quality cards. During gameplay, you need to make the best plays. This play-style will make you think long and hard about what moves you make, so if you like strategy and thinking, you'll love this. cEDH is all about doing powerful things and bringing these decks to their limit. Anything within the rules of commander, goes.

A "Typical" cEDH Game

If you've been playing commander for more than 2 hours you've probably heard someone say that cEDH games end in 2 turns or less. While it does happen, it's very rare. Most combos cannot happen this quickly and there are three other players ready to stop early game combos. That said, there is a sort of structure to how games play out.

For everything I say here, there will always be exceptions, but for the most part decks aim to follow this framework.
Turns 1 & 2: The setup phase. Turn 1 is almost always mana ramp. Turn 2 you set up some card advantage or stax to slow down opponents. Or more ramp.
Turn 3: Decks will make their first big play on this turn. Often this means playing their commander, or it could be the setup for a combo. The faster combo decks can try to win on this turn, which also means the disruptive decks use turn 3 to be ready to stop a combo.
Turn 4+: Almost every cEDH deck plans on threatening a win on turn 4. When you practice with the deck, you'll be looking for a turn 4 win. But then there are counterspells, there's interaction, there's that annoying stax piece. You're not guaranteed to win in turn 4 just because that's your plan. So while games can end on turn 4, there is nigh-always something stopping this from happening.

Deck Building Basics

Let's go over the relevant card categories found in cEDH deck building. The first paragraph is the run-down on why you need these things and what you should look for in those cards. After that I've included some examples of common cEDH cards. Keep in mind that just because you can use a Mox Diamond, it does not mean that you have to, or should use it. These are cards that are frequently used in cEDH deck building, but your deck's needs will vary. Keep in mind that new cards will be released and I can't keep up with all of them, so be on the lookout for new staples. This is not a comprehensive list, this is just examples of what quality cards look like so you'll be able to identify new good cards when they are released. I have some more comprehensive lists, but they also include a lot of cards that I wouldn't use in cEDH.

Mana Ramp

As a general rule, your ramp will be 2 mana or less. Usually 1 or less. I don't think there are any decks that use 3 mana ramp, unless it's Jeska's Will. Mana ramp is played in the early turns so it needs to be low cost, high efficiency. Sorry, but Solemn Simulacrum won't cut it. In the case of ritual effects (one-shot fast mana, like Dark Ritual or Dockside Extortionist) you will either cast them in the early game to get a big lead, or in the late game to help you combo.


Card Draw

Card draw should all be stuff that draws you lots of cards. The mana costs for these can be a little higher than ramp. It's also very common for your commander(s) to provide card advantage for the deck. More card draw means finding more ramp, interaction, and combo pieces. Much like clean underwear, you only notice how little you have when you run out, so packing extra card draw is always a good idea.


Removal

Removal is used to remove threats. Removal aims to be 2 mana or less and when possible, hit multiple card types and be instant-speed. That last part is really important, as sorcery-speed removal is ineffective at stopping combos. Boardwipes are rare due to their high mana costs, but some still show up. The things you want to prioritize removing are a stax piece that is holding you back from winning, or an opponent's win-condition while they're trying to combo. See the "Threat Assessment" section later on in this post for more info.


Protection

Protection does exactly what it says on the tin; it's designed to protect your boardstate and combo. Often this will be in the form of counterspells but there are other options for protecting your things. Commander is an interactive format and cEDH has a crazy amount of interaction. You need to protect your gameplan.


Tutors

For the most part, tutors (slang term for search effects) are used to find your combo pieces. There are also "toolbox" builds that will search for a specific stax piece or counterplay for a given situation.


Combos

I'm not going to spend a lot of time talking about combos here, as I address it in the "Making Combos" and "Stopping Combos" sections. You'll frequently see these cards in combos.


Stax

The name "stax" is derived from "tax" effects (Thorn of Amethyst) and the card Smokestack. In short, stax effects are cards that make the game harder to play because they lock players out of their resources. Stax cards are very effective at stopping combos. When picking stax effects, make sure that you're picking effects that will hurt your opponents more than yourself. See the "Using Stax" section for more info.


Lands

As a rule, lands should never enter tapped. They slow you down too much in cEDH. There are exceptions, but they are rare (Dakmor Salvage and Hall of the Bandit Lord come to mind). For your land base, you're probably going to be using around 30 lands. If you're a first-time cEDH deckbuilder I recommend 33 lands until you get more comfortable with cEDH. You can afford to use so few lands because cEDH decks have lower curves than other Commander decks and they have much more ramp. Expect close to 50% of your deck to be mana.

For land choices, you almost definitely want all of the fetch-lands (ex: Arid Mesa) available for your colours. Then if you're a multicolour deck, include the OG duals (ex: Taiga) of your colours. Then move on to the shock lands (ex: Temple Garden). If you're a 2-colour deck you'll need significantly more types of duals, so go for ones that don't enter tapped. Obviously, you'll want the all-colour lands like Command Tower and Exotic Orchard. Don't forget to include multimana lands like Gaea's Cradle and Phyrexian Tower if they're relevant for your deck. Lastly, include at least 1 of every basic land you can run (unless you're trying to do something with Hermit Druid). Why? Because if you're on the receiving end of a Path to Exile or Assassin's Trophy, at least you get something.

Threat Assessment

This is incredibly important in casual commander and doubly so in cEDH. You're going to be facing off against three decks that are all trying to combo off. You need to be able to predict who is going to combo off and hit them where it hurts. You also need to worry about stax effects that are hurting you and get rid of them if necessary. Threat assessment is a big topic, and it was discussed on Deckstats but in a more casual context. I'll try to summarize the important parts here.

First, if there is a stax piece that is stopping another player from winning leave it alone. The only reason why you should remove it is because it is also stopping you from winning and you're otherwise ready to combo off. Yes that Archon of Emeria is annoying as hell, but it's also stopping the storm player and the Ad Nauseam player from winning right now. Don't touch it. If it's stopping your combo, remove it on the end step right before your turn and then go for the win.

Second, you want to use baiting and bluffing. Baiting is when you suspect that there is a counterspell, so you play something strong to "bait" it out. You let that card get countered, then play the actually dangerous spell. For example, you might cast Toxic Deluge to threaten the player's boardstate, they counter it, and then you cast Ad Nauseam so you can safely go for your win. Bluffing is when you pretend that you have an answer, but really you don't. You make everyone think that you're sitting on a counterspell or removal spell so they don't go for their win. No lie, leaving two islands untapped is an amazing bluff. Good bluffing can win games.

Third, I go into more details about threat assessment when dealing with combo decks in the "Stopping Combos" section. Stopping combos is absolutely a priority along with trying to combo off yourself.

Making Combos

So there are combos out there that are tried and true like Thassa's Oracle + Demonic Consultation. You win the game easily; it's low-cost, comes out early, and easy to assemble. When possible, you can use these well-known combos, or you can brew your own. Combo crafting is hella hard, but a lot of fun. Here are some of the things to think about when using or crafting a combo.

Be Unique

This is the big thing in cEDH right now. If you brew a combo line that no one has seen before, they are not going to know how to assess you as a threat. Forget tier lists, this is what will win you games. When you have a homebrew combo, you'll be able to play those combo pieces with little resistance. Your opponents won't think they're dangerous until it's too late. This is why I avoid telling someone that a particular commander is not viable in cEDH. There are some that are harder than others, and it's fully possible they will never be cEDH level, but I always want to encourage people to experiment and try new things.

Keep in mind that the other parts below are also relevant when making your homebrew combo.

Efficiency

You want your combo to use as few cards as possible. 2 card combos are pretty standard, although 3 card combos still exist. When possible, incorporate your commander into the combo.

Limit Dead Cards

When building a combo, a "dead card" is something that has no use outside of the combo. My go-to example is Deadeye Navigator + Dockside Extortionist. Together they make infinite mana, amazing! But how useful is Deadeye Navigator on it's own? It's 6 mana and then some. Dockside is still fantastic ramp on its own. So in this example, Deadeye Navigator is the dead card. If you have it in your starting hand, it's a feels-bad moment.

Layer Your Combos

When possible, you want your combo pieces to be usable in more than one combo. For example, Thassa's Oracle, Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, Tainted Pact, and Demonic Consultation layer really well. These 4 cards have 4 different combinations, so this line of play is easier to build into.

Resilience

This is the hardest to do, but you want your combo to be resistant to stax and interaction. For example, using a creature-based combo can get around Deafening Silence. If you include recursion effects you'll be able to recover from losing your combo. Having multiple combo lines is an excellent way to ensure a resilient deck. I'm not going to spend too much time on this because crafting resilient combos is hard (it's not suitable for an "intro" topic), so in most cases you're best off with improving your protection package.

Stopping Combos

This was its own topic and the info is still up-to-date. That thread has info that is relevant to both casual and competitive settings, so I recommend you check it out. While it's focus was on stopping combos, it also includes how to play certain popular combo lines like Thassa's Oracle, Food Chain, Storm, and others. I'll include some of the important parts here.

Sometimes the indications for combos can be more subtle. If they tutored for something with Demonic Tutor last turn, and then didn't play anything, it's probably a good idea to leave some mana open, to at least threaten interaction.

During gameplay, remember to leave mana open if you think a combo is coming.

The other important point to stopping combos (and this may seem strange) is that in most cases you should always wait until the last possible moment before interacting with the combo. Let's say you have a removal spell in hand. When your opponent plays Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, you do nothing. When they play Felidar Guardian, you do nothing. When they tap Kiki-Jiki to copy felidar, that is when you respond by removing either of those creatures. There are a lot of reasons for doing this. First of all, when they play the first combo piece, you don't actually know if they are going to combo this turn. They might just be playing Kiki-Jiki for value. That's not worth removing. Second, at any point during these steps, a different opponent might try to interact. They might counter the felidar, or jump the gun and remove Kiki-Jiki. If you can get other players to expel resources instead of you, it puts you further ahead in the game. Third, by letting the combo get to that point, your opponent is invested in it, so it's even more spectacular when it fails. If someone counters their Kiki-Jiki, they aren't going to play felidar. They'll use card draw, or recursion, or they may hold up the 4 mana to mess with your boardstate. Let them waste their mana and cards first, then stop the combo.

Using Stax

Stax is often it's own dedicated strategy. Unlike in casual commander, stax is not frowned upon in cEDH. Anything goes, including stopping other people from playing out their game plan. When building a dedicated stax deck, your choice of commander matters a lot. Like... really a lot. Some examples include commanders that help you get around stax (Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Urza, Lord High Artificer) and commanders that can find you stax pieces (Winota, Joiner of Forces, Sisay, Weatherlight Captain). Sometimes you can get away with using a commander that is stax (Drana and Linvala, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed) but you typically only want to do this if this commander would be particularly effective in your meta. When picking stax pieces, go for things that will affect you the least. For example, if you have a lot of creature-based ramp, consider using Collector Ouphe and Null Rod. If you don't cast many spells on your turn anyway, consider Rule of Law type stax effects. If you're mono-red use Blood Moon.

If you play with a specific group, you can also do a meta analysis and see which strategies are most common and then pick stax pieces that will mess them up. So if you know that there are a few decks trying to win with Thassa's Oracle, you can include tech pieces like Endurance or Dress Down to mess with them. Does someone love their Underworld Breach lines? Put them in their place with some grave-hate like Rest in Peace or Soulless Jailer.

Easy to Build Decks

By "easy to build" I mean that by looking at the commander(s) you'll already have a good idea of how to play these decks. These decks are relatively easy to pilot, so they're especially good if you're dipping your toes into cEDH for the first time. Remember that proxies are nigh-universal, so all cards are easy to acquire and you only need to worry about the price of the print job.

Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator

Depending on what direction you want to take with this deck, Malcolm can be partnered with Vial Smasher the Fierce, Breeches, Brazen Plunderer, or Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar (among others). First off, Malcolm goes infinite with Glint-Horn Buccaneer. Second, there are a few pirates that are good for other reasons (Dockside Extortionist, Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer, Siren Stormtamer). Third, this deck has a simple game plan; get Malcolm out, start generating treasures for mana, then get into your win-condition. There are a lot of combos you can use, so go nuts.

Winota, Joiner of Forces

The go-to stax deck right now. Use non-humans to get into human stax pieces like Magus of the Moon, Drannith Magistrate, and Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Don't forget to use non-human stax as well in the early game. This deck can get out of control really fast as it generates exponentially more value, before you win with a layered combo between Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Combat Celebrant or Rionya, Fire Dancer + Combat Celebrant. As the game grinds to a halt, winning with pure combat damage is also a possibility.

Edric, Spymaster of Trest

I'm super biased here, but this does make a great starting commander deck. Play a bunch of low-cost evasive creatures, use them to draw cards, hold up mana for your fist-full of counterspells, and then win the game by playing extra turn spells. It's great if you want to learn threat assessment through counterspells.

Tivit, Seller of Secrets

The immediate appeal is the one-card combo with Time Sieve. After that, Tivit is a great value engine to provide you with ramp and draw, so you can also play a more control-oriented game plan. You can also add in a bunch of other 2-card combos in this deck, most notably Thassa's Oracle lines.

Korvold, Fae-Cursed King

A good Food Chain deck, as Korvold can draw you into a win. Korvold is one of those commanders that can accidentally be really powerful, so you can imagine what he's like in a competitive setting. You can generate lots of value and build into a variety of combo lines.

Additional Resources

EDH Top 16: Do you know what my favourite thing about Deckstats is? The stats. So you can see why I like this site. Its a database that uses recent tournament data to show which decks are winning. Everything here is based on data rather than opinions, so opinion-based tier lists are a thing of the past. If you want to see which decks are performing well right now, check this site out.

cEDH Decklist Database: This one I'm on the fence about. On one hand, it's a really good resource if you're looking for primers which is useful for when you want to learn how to play a certain deck. On the other hand, this site has received a lot of criticism for its criteria for allowing decks on the list. I think that it's useful when you want to find a well-written primer to learn the deck's combos, but do not treat it as gospel.

EDHREC: While this site is much more geared towards casual play, setting the filter to "expensive" can put you on the right track to seeing more cEDH strength cards. It's also really useful for when a new set drops, you can see what new cards people are using with your commander.

Commander Spellbook: This is a search engine for combos. Because combos are entered manually there are always a bunch missing, so brewing your own is still a good idea. However, this is still great for finding a combo that works in your deck, finding cards that combo with your commander, and for putting you on the right track for combo lines.

cEDH Discord: A place to chat about all things cEDH. Often times, a particular commander will have it's own dedicated cEDH server, so you may want to also search around for them.

Frequently Asked Questions

"Why don't cEDH players make their own format?"

That's Conquest, a format that was created by cEDH players that aimed to make aggro decks just as viable as combo decks (among other things). It has some radical rules differences with commander, including being able to use planeswalkers as commanders, 30 life to start, 80-card decks, and a blanket ban on fetchlands and reserve list cards. The end result is that there are way more viable high-power strategies in Conquest than in Commander.

So why is cEDH still a thing if Conquest exists? Because the idea of Competitive Commander is to build Commander decks as strong as possible. As long as the Commander format exists, there will be people that want to play it as strong as possible.

"How long do games last?"

Turn-wise, almost every deck aims to win on turn 3 or 4. Does this happen? Hell no! There are 3 other players ready to stop combos with interaction and there are stax pieces slowing the game down. Don't get me wrong, there are times where games end turn 2, but I'm finding turns 6 to 8 to be more accurate in practice. As for time-wise, one hour to an hour and a half has been my experience, although games do go as short as half an hour.

"Where can I find cEDH games?"

If you want to do online play because people in real-life smell, the cEDH Discord (linked above) is a good place to start. You can also often find rando games on Tabletop Simulator, Cockatrice, and Untap.

If you're like me and hate the sound of your voice when it's played back to you, you can try for in-person games. The best bet is to go to your regularly scheduled Commander night and ask around if anyone has played or would be interested in cEDH. If you can make it to big tournaments, there is often Commander as a side-event, and you can find cEDH players that way.

"Is [commander name] viable in cEDH?"

As much as it pains me to admit it, the answer is probably no. Some commanders just don't have anything going for them (sorry Sivitri Scarzam) and always have better choices. Typically, what identifies a good commander is one or more of these qualities:


For these reasons, a lot commanders that are normally very strong in casual commander don't show up in cEDH. Think of Atraxa, Praetors' Voice: She falls into none of the above categories. With all of that said though, I try not to discourage people that want to push a particular commander to it's limit. I meant it before when I said that being unique is important, so please, try new things. Even if you don't succeed... well... read the next question.

"What happens if my deck isn't good enough for cEDH?"

This happens to every cEDH brewer at some point. An idea they had falls short of greatness. If you got really close though, there's fringe commander. This playstyle is for decks that are a little slower than cEDH, and a little less consistent. While they can still do powerful things (and would wreck most casual pods) they can't quite nail threatening/stopping a turn 4 win. A lot of the strong tribal commanders end up here. If you can typically threaten a turn 5 to 7 win, fringe commander might be right for you.

If the deck is still slower than that, there's the realm of high-powered casual. Even if you don't make a cEDH deck, you can still have fun with it. You just gotta find the right people to play with.

Closing Remarks

Honestly I'm surprised I didn't hit the character limit. I'm also surprised you read all of this, good for you. Let's go over some last-minute tips that I couldn't fit anywhere else.

  • You want a turn 1 play. Turn 2 without turn 1 is doable, but not preferred.
  • Always attack the Ad Nauseam player. They will use their life as a resource so if you need someone to attack, it's them.
  • Never feed the fish.
  • Take a shower. This applies for more than just cEDH but I'm still going to bring it up.
  • Make sure you understand how priority and the stack works. The stack can and will get big in cEDH games.
  • While there are decks that win with combat damage, they are incredibly rare and are enabled by something else (like extra turns or a very grindy game). This is why I never went over combat damage as a win-condition.
  • Leave the salt in the kitchen. People will be playing cards seen as degenerate by most casual players. The onus is on you to control your behaviour when these cards are played.

If you have any questions that weren't covered by this post, please post them below. If you have any ideas for a deck or combo line and you want help refining it, you can either message me through Deckstats or make your own post. I'm sure I'll see it. If there is anything I've missed, that you think is important for an intro topic, bring it up.

ApothecaryGeist

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Re: Intro to cEDH
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2023, 10:51:31 pm »
Obviously the old tri-lands (Opulent Palance) are trash for cEDH.  Do the newer Triomes (Zagoth Triome) make the cut?
Happy Brewing!
:)

Morganator 2.0

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Re: Intro to cEDH
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2023, 12:28:09 am »
Obviously the old tri-lands (Opulent Palace) are trash for cEDH.  Do the newer Triomes (Zagoth Triome) make the cut?

Unfortunately not. In high-powered but-not-cEDH commander they are useful when combined with fetchlands. If you need the mana right away, grab a shock land. If not, grab a triome on the end step before your turn.

With cEDH, you're always gonna get the OG duals/shock lands, especially in the early turns. When you're operating on no budget, there are plenty of ways to fix your mana already, without lands that enter tapped. I've certainly never seen a triome in cEDH.

Even most lands that conditionally enter tapped (Hinterland Harbor, Concealed Courtyard, Overgrown Farmland) I don't see much on any more. They appear in their respective 2-colour decks, but that's about it. Between bond lands, pain lands, OG duals, shock lands, and all the any-mana options, colour fixing is rarely an issue.

Rose the Budget Queen

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Re: Intro to cEDH
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2023, 06:58:55 pm »
This was everything I was wanting and more! Thank you for this! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️