Help Request: Managing Playgroup Power Level

[jlutzxinc]

Please move this if it's in the wrong place.

Wherever I go and whomever I play with, I tend to attract insanely aggressive people.  I don't mean just "competitive or GTFO" types, but also mass-everything-destruction.dek and no-turn-for-you.dek types as well.  Scrubs, basically; the kind of player who's only good enough at the game to make everyone else miserable but NOT enough that they couldn't be considered "casual" players.

A few people I know (myself included) would rather have a "fun" game where shenanigans galore occur but we can't do that because all of these brutal randos keep showing up and we can't say no.  What can I do?

[Morganator 2.0]

all of these brutal randos keep showing up and we can't say no.

I think I found the source of the problem. Say no. Stand up for yourself and say that you just want to play a nice game with your friends.

I get that this can be hard for other people to do, but is something important. Be honest without being insulting. Just say that you know your deck can't compete with their's so you want to stick with your friends.

[jlutzxinc]

It's not that simple.  If it were the same person or small group that just happens to turn up wherever we go it'd be fine, but it's someone different each time and we don't know until it's too late.

EDIT: I mean a couple of the same people do show up, but those people pretend to be playing something else only to act the same way.  The rest are actually different.

DOUBLE EDIT: I'm sorry if I'm not clear, but I'm getting really burned out.  "Fun" and "casual" are in quotes because we're more competitive than most people throwing those terms around.

[WizardSpartan]

It's not that simple.  If it were the same person or small group that just happens to turn up wherever we go it'd be fine, but it's someone different each time and we don't know until it's too late.

Have discussions that manage expectations before the game. Explain you don't want stax, MLD, whatever you have bad experiences with. If they refuse to play decks without those kinds of cards, then find another pod. Because you mention that there are different people every time causing problems, then that means (to me) there are a lot of people in your area that play Magic, and most EDH players don't just run unfun decks for the kicks.

[jlutzxinc]

I guess I'm just that unlucky.  I've tried changing pods several times with no success and I'm tired of it.

It's not even the stax or MLD I can't stand, just that people turn up with that and nothing else purely to upset us.

Thank you both for trying to help.

EDIT: I meant they do it to upset people in general, not my group in particular.  I don't think I'm being actively hunted.

DOUBLE EDIT: I'll further clarify that it got much worse after Yurlok of Scorch Thrash was released.  I wouldn't be exaggerating to say that almost half of all the Commander-specific opponents I've ever had have been groupslug.dek mains.  Don't get me wrong, I love Yurlok; I just wish I could play something other than Kalamax, the Stormsire because the wipes are getting ridiculous.

[crimsonking]

I always ask what power level and/or archetypes are expected before sitting to a table. That's always a good practice.
Another option is: just play more interaction (this tends to translate into: play blue for counterspells).
Cards generally good against land destruction:

• Crucible of Worlds
• Ramunap Excavator
• Life from the Loam
• some other form of land recursion
• mana rocks
• mana dorks
• lower your mana curve

Cards generally good against infinite turns:

• Stranglehold
• Lavinia, Azorius Renegade
• Gaddock Teeg
• Rule of Law and similar
• stax, play a lot of stax

[jlutzxinc]

I've been getting into the "play more interaction" thing a lot more often lately, but it really feels like most of my Deck is interaction at this point.  Stax just gets wiped and I'm so upset that I can't keep anything on the board.

I have nothing against this playstyle and in fact one of my friends is an Avacyn, Angel of Hope main; I just wish there was more variety and I'm far from the only one.

[Morganator 2.0]

I can't help but think that there is more going on here.

Is there a pre-game discussion where everyone talks about the power of their decks? And if so, what do you say? Because if you're telling people that you play more competitive decks, it's no surprise that people are also pulling out their good stuff. If someone is coming to you for the first time, with no prior knowledge about your decks, it's important that they know what everyone wants out of the game. The pre-game discussion will help weed out these randos with the group-slug decks.

Repeat offenders is a different case. For these people that you had join your pod several times, and yet they always play decks that you don't like, you need to have a talk with them. Try to make them understand that the decks they play are not what you want out of these games. There are plenty of people they can play with those decks, just not with you. I'm a pretty confident person, so I don't have a problem confronting people like this. You might not be the same way, so I can understand if this is a difficult step. I would suggest getting a few people to back you up when you go to confront these people. If all they are doing is pubstomping, they deserve to be put in their place.

[jlutzxinc]

This is more like it, thank you.  Not only am I not a particularly assertive individual, but the regulars in my group are the same way.  We struggle to stand up to the "pubstompers", not only because we have some aggro strategies ourselves, but because we don't like directly confronting people and prefer to use Magic (or any other game) to express ourselves.  Linked below is a woefully incomplete sample of the...diversity of strategies my regulars have alone; note that the Yurlok fans (yes, plural) have been using other stuff because even they are getting a bit sick of his prevalence in my area, and any Deck with Blue is increasingly popular not only due to the counterspells but also the variety of clone effects because we can have one ready when my monowhite friend drops Avacyn.
EDIT: We don't play just Commander format, but that is the most popular.

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

My Tribal combinations are highly casual. The only time of the week (excluding this COVID-19 pandemic that blocked all kinds of casualness and fruitful club gatherings) was/is the FNM. So, I can't get it: you either play at FNMs at your LGS or you play EDH with casual attitude? If either, the case, there's no-one to get mad, beside yourself. I can't get mad against Eldrazi Tron: it's just pay-to-win at the Friday Night Modern and my Boros Angels is fantastic deck, but that's reality; I lose, but I lose with 2-3 or 3-2, wins-loses ratio and I'm happy because these combinations are much higher budget than mine, yet the "production" of my deck is worth the price (which usually from the boosters to pick at the end of the FNM is not that high so to speak of) and I'm worthy of my placement.

[WizardSpartan]

It's good to know what your meta looks like, but would you mind linking some of your lists that are most representative of what you play? That might help.

Like others said: Talk, talk, and talk.

If there is someone you don't know sitting down to play with you, talk to them. Explain what you want from the game & what you don't want from the game. Ask what their deck is like. If everything is cool, great! If they are playing a deck you don't want to deal with, explain your situation and ask them to play something else. If they refuse, leave (or ask them to leave if you feel comfortable).

If you know them and know they run decks that go directly against what you want from the game, ask if they are playing those kinds of decks. If they are, ask them to play another deck. If they refuse, leave (or ask them to leave if you feel comfortable).

I know it may be hard, so consider working together with some people you know. If you can't make a full pod of people you know and trust, then at least find 1 or 2 and work together to fill out the pod with people bringing decks you are fine with.

I highly doubt your area is just chock-full of pubstomping, no-fun players, so you might have to refuse a couple people or move to another table, but that's better than sitting for an hour or two plus in an unbalanced game. It sounds really odd to me that there are a bunch of group slug players actively seeking the most annoying, unfun decks just to upset other players. That's malicious. I wouldn't know why, but could it be that there are a very small number of people that are like that but they compensate by playing loads of games? I just don't see how half the players in your area are as malicious as you are describing.

If you are playing in an LGS and it really is just, say, 2 players that are bringing their pubstomping decks, consider rounding up a group of people just as angry as you are and talking to the owner. Any good owner would see the negative impact these people are having and would be more than happy to remove them from their store. If they don't, they are just hurting themselves. If I, as a player new to this certain store, came in for some FNM and all of my games were against toxic decks like you describe, I would not be coming back, and that's very bad for the store owner. Their community becomes very stale as a result of not getting a consistent flow of newcomers, and even regulars might stop coming because they are bored (they already know which decks they are going to play against and don't really feel like playing with those decks).

Edit:

My Tribal combinations are highly casual. The only time of the week (excluding this COVID-19 pandemic that blocked all kinds of casualness and fruitful club gatherings) was/is the FNM. So, I can't get it: you either play at FNMs at your LGS or you play EDH with casual attitude? If either, the case, there's no-one to get mad, beside yourself. I can't get mad against Eldrazi Tron: it's just pay-to-win at the Friday Night Modern and my Boros Angels is fantastic deck, but that's reality; I lose, but I lose with 2-3 or 3-2, wins-loses ratio and I'm happy because these combinations are much higher budget than mine, yet the "production" of my deck is worth the price (which usually from the boosters to pick at the end of the FNM is not that high so to speak of) and I'm worthy of my placement.

I'm confused by your point. I doubt that jlutzxinc is playing in tourneys with prizes. I imagine they are just playing casually either at an LGS, online, or at another place like someone's house, a local library, etc.

You are describing a controlled setting where you are playing competitive Modern for prizes in the form of boosters. That's a completely different situation and doesn't really have bearing here.

[jlutzxinc]

I think it's just what I said, we play a huge range of stuff and aren't very assertive; the combination gets us walked on everywhere we go, and it's not even a single place or method.  I'm now on mobile and the link function isn't working on this specific device, but I don't have lists for anything here because it's a tracker for group trends and not a reflection of my personal preference per se.

We try talking to people but our concept of power level is "if it's currently officially banned in any major format, it's too much", so it comes across as "do whatever".

EDIT: I'll add a specific example.  Many Decks have Lotus Petal but none have Sol Ring, because the latter is banned in Legacy but the former is not.

[Morganator 2.0]

I just don't see how half the players in your area are as malicious as you are describing.

That's kinda what I meant earlier when I said I can't help but think that there is more going on here. Are we getting the complete picture here? I've found that specific stores will have more toxic players than others (trash attracts trash) but everywhere you go? Something's not right.

Also, sorry WizardSpartan, but I have to advise against this:

If you are playing in an LGS and it really is just, say, 2 players that are bringing their pubstomping decks, consider rounding up a group of people just as angry as you are and talking to the owner. Any good owner would see the negative impact these people are having and would be more than happy to remove them from their store. If they don't, they are just hurting themselves.

You have to remember that stores are a business, and confronting the toxic player could cause them to lose them as a customer. From experience, store owners are usually pretty reluctant to step in and choose sides. That's why the solution has to come from the players themselves.

Some game stores have stronger commander communities than others. I would suggest trying out a few different places and see what you like. Who you play with is more important than what you play with. I guarantee you that you will find other people like yourself if you just explore a bit.

One last thing though, it's a little off topic, but are you in a place that has the pandemic under reasonable control? Because if not, you shouldn't be going out to begin with, and we can put this discussion on hold until things get better.

[jlutzxinc]

I don't intend to sound rude, but I've already answered that question, albeit not as directly as I could have; I've tried several locations and am currently online due to COVID but am somehow facing the same problem.

I don't know whether it's just my perception but I've played over a hundred games (yes, really) and a large proportion were heavily unbalanced.  Yurlok in particular seems to be everywhere.  The others that are usually present feel the same way as far as they'll say.

I think we're just too nebulous and/or lenient and people get away with things that they shouldn't.  Thank all of you again for trying to help, but I think I already know these tips but needed to hear them from others.

[crimsonking]

I have to say I often feel the opposite too.
Last week, for instance, I asked what strategies were allowed and the guy specifically said: no land destruction, no combos.
I then picked my casual deck, only to see he was piloting Zacama.
I mean, a deck that is night-unstoppable, unless you're playing (guess what?) land stax.
Of course he got to 9 mana, then cast the shit out of his hand uncontested and took the game.
Next game, another guy said: casual level.
His second turn play was Drannith Magistrate.
I mean, most of the time, when people say "casual" it tipically translates into: "I'm playing a dumb, linear deck that just ramps into one bomb after the other. Zero interaction, zero sinergy (besides the ones that Wizards tells you to play, like: "Hey! Look, Arcades, the Strategist! Let's put together a bunch of stupid walls and make a deck that plays by itself out of it!") and I expect you not to mess around with my shit."
I mean, this is the reason why one of the decks that I hate the most is Omnath, Locus of Mana.
Not because it's especially strong (au contraire), but because it's a deck that does literally nothing besides ramping (you see: the less you cast, the more mana you have in your pool, the bigger is Omnath).
Tipically, the game goes like this: he gets Omnath out, he beats the shit out of some unlucky player, then:

• You kill his commander. He rage-quits.
• You wipe the board. He rage-quits.
• You chump-block him and eventually combo him out. He rage-quits.

Your only option is to play a deck as dumb as his, apart from the fact it probably doesn't ramp as well as his (he's playing mono-green, after all) and your monsters aren't as big as Omnath (because, I mean, Omnath is his commander, it enters on turn 3 and if he happens to fart twice it's already 11/11).
I.e. your only option is to let him win.
I'm personally sick of that.
Nowadays, I bring this deck to casual tables:
https://deckstats.net/decks/54477/512434-scary-deck
It looks casual. It's slow like shit. It plays a bunch of crap. I mean, it's a scarecrow deck...
But if the Reaper King gets online it can be very mean. And given enough time, it can stumble on a number of insta-kill combos.
I let the noobs play their game. If they get out of hand, I play the fun police. When some-one is about to win anyway, I just combo out in their face. Frankly, I don't care.
If you can win on turn 7 via combat damage, why I can't go infinite on that same turn?
Let's speak the truth: some people just don't know how to lose.