Help Request: Managing Playgroup Power Level

[robort]

I agree with Morgantor. There seems something more going on here than meets the eye. However here is what I did and granted at times I wasn't "playing" the game. I will play any of my decks, almost 0 of them just aren't close to fully optimized. I will sit down against anybody and if I haven't played I will ask power level and even asked what turn to plan to win on? If it is some regular answer as "dunno' or "it is casual". I then don't have any expections besides the we'll see. If I get locked out, run over and et-cetra I will then say "time to play this deck again". Eventually they get the picture after winning 3 or 4 straight games against me or they go find a pod of others to play against. I had a regular who frequents and plays at our local LGS say to me "When you play you aren't out to win". I said "No I am here just to play and enjoy this game, winning is down on the bottom of my list and besides I have won enough things in life that winning a game of cards is no big deal to me".

Some of the other regulars including the one I have mentioned have powered down their deck making because of it. Now there is a regular and like Crimsonking tried to make a low powered Reaper King but we've seen what the king does and gets boogity bogus so we naturally target him for the king. I personally try not to target him as well but it is hard not to do when it is destroying stuff all over the field.

However the whole thing is to find a group that you enjoy playing with and do the best you can to get into a pod with those type of people and let the others get into their own pod as well.

[jlutzxinc]

@crimsonking: Your examples consist exclusively of people who go out of their way to lie to you.  Most people we find won't go that far, e.g. someone has Atraxa, Praetors' Voice but says they don't have Infect, they don't.  I wouldn't trade my brutally honest experience for whatever $#!+fest you deal with.

@robort: You're doing essentially what I'm doing, but my randos aren't getting the message like your companions are.  I still appreciate the feedback and I'm not going to stop trying.

I realize that I could house-ban Decks like Yurlok, but so many of the regulars really like him in spite of being willing to play something else that I'm afraid to.

EDIT: I've noticed that reading several of my posts in a row implies that out of over a hundred games, almost two hundred people were maining Yurlok.  That's obviously ridiculous and not even close to what I meant.  Other kinds of wreck-everything Decks turn up too, but Yurlok is unusually common.

[crimsonking]

@jlutzxinc: I'm not saying you're the Omnath guy, nor the Zacama guy, or whatever.
But maybe those randos you're talking about come from the same kind of experiences like me.
Maybe they're sick of watching people playing the "who drops the biggest bomb" game and just sidestepped its idiosyncrasies.
I mean, why Expropriate (a card that only asks you to get to 9 mana and basically wins you the game, no restrictions, no setup required) is fair game, while Tooth and Nail into Kiki-Jiki combo (a card that costs the very same amount of mana, requires 2 more slots in your decklist and can be stopped with a Swords to Plowshares) catapults you into the realm of competitive?
I'm not justifying them either, only giving more perspective to the whole thing.

[jlutzxinc]

That's possible but seems very unlikely.  If the kind of hard-core scrubs you face were so prevalent here that the majority of randos were thoroughly sick of them then I'd be facing those people instead, and I'd probably be complaining about them instead.

[crimsonking]

As for the so-called Yarok problem, I personally blame Wizards for it.
Since they've chosen to push Commander, they're making one stupid-broken card after another.
If it's not Yarok, it's Golos (you get to 5 mana. If they don't answer to that, the next turn you're almost guaranteed to go bonkers. If they remove Golos, you're halfway to overcome its commander tax and repeat the same trick next turn anyway) or Kinnan (I mean, turn 2 Kinnan, turn 3 get infinite mana out of nowhere and drop your entire library. Nice game, dude...) or Urza (this card is an insult to our intelligence. It literally comboes with anything. Even if you're so dumb you can't go off with it, you still have the stupid token)... And cards like Jeweled Lotus are only exacerbating this.
Of course, to stop Yarok you could run Torpor Orb and such, but hey! That's not a "casual" card, you cheater!
I reckon you'll eventually be forced to play more interaction, as I said earlier.
More removals, more counters, more hate cards. I.e. more competitive lists, more generic card choices etc.
C'est la vie...

[jlutzxinc]

Such fun, huh?  Urza is so brainless we DON'T get upset when we see him, because at least then it's not malicious.

Yarok ETB value is less prevalent here because several people are maining outs to him.  If only we could get rid of all the mana burn we'd be much happier.

Golos is actually banned in our format because someone turned up with one of those Decks that runs exclusively cards with Land on the back instead of real Land and proceeded to unload on everyone.  Of course that was right after he rotated and was no longer banned for another reason.  Fark him.

EDIT: I just had one of the handful of games I've ever played where I was able to actually get some stuff out and win without exclusive reliance on Nonpermanents.  If only I could have more games like that.

DOUBLE EDIT: We see so many wipes that Urza actually doesn't win because he can't keep his stuff out to tap.

[WizardSpartan]

I don't intend to sound rude, but I've already answered that question, albeit not as directly as I could have; I've tried several locations and am currently online due to COVID but am somehow facing the same problem.

I don't know whether it's just my perception but I've played over a hundred games (yes, really) and a large proportion were heavily unbalanced.  Yurlok in particular seems to be everywhere.  The others that are usually present feel the same way as far as they'll say.

I think we're just too nebulous and/or lenient and people get away with things that they shouldn't.  Thank all of you again for trying to help, but I think I already know these tips but needed to hear them from others.

I've been playing online (on Untap.in), and when I create a game, I list a bunch of stuff I don't want to see in addition to the average power level.
I.e. "5-7/10, NO Stax, Infinite, MLD" is what I will usually put when I want a chill game of EDH. I still want people to interact with each other, but I don't trust randos to actually use their stax elements to generate an advantage and sitting under Winter Orb + Spirit of the Labyrinth for an hour and a half as I consider my life choices.

One suggestion I can make is talk with the other players. If the player who brought their Yurlok deck isn't interesting in playing anything else, and everyone is as sick of Yurlok as you are, just, well, kill the Yurlok player. Group slug/punisher decks often deal a lot of damage to themselves in addition to the rest of the table, so they are pretty easy to kill with concerted effort. Enough games of that, and even players like those you have described will start considering either leaving or playing other decks.

Also, Morganator, the way I was thinking of it was that there are just like 1 or 2 "toxic" players. They've been described as pubstompers out to make everyone else feel frustrated and upset. If I were a player coming in to this LGS just to spend several games against these players, I probably wouldn't come back. I just figure a store owner would much prefer to lose 1-2 "bad" players than lose many more regular people who just want to have fun playing Magic. Then again, I'm not particularly experienced with LGSs, so maybe I am not thinking in the right mindset.

[jlutzxinc]

Ooh, another card for Skillshare; I'll pass that on.  Wearing my group out of "punisher" Decks won't be easy but I'll do my best.  Thank you.

[robort]

The others are right. You do need interactions in your deck as well  Sitting there thinking to yourself "Don't you guys have anything to stop this" when you need to be the one to stop it. Interactions isn't always about board wipes, it is also single removal, stax, hand reduction and counter spells. After I started using more interactions I now think "Don't these other guys know what interactions are". Because I don't see them being used by other players as much as I use them.

[jlutzxinc]

Interaction isn't something I have any shortage of.

[Mynus]

First, have you ever thought about hosting your own group? Are there people that you have enjoyed playing against? Make a list and specifically invite those players. If you are currently playing online, send messages to people asking them when is good for them and make your own pod. This should help avoid the unexpected player. When the lockdown is over, consider inviting people to your place and creating your own pod.

Second, this is the internet and I don't know any of you. So, I don't know how to say this any more gently, but if the problem follows you wherever you go, have you ever considered that you are the problem? If I am being entirely honest, some of the language and tone of your posts comes across as indignant, self-righteous, and elitist. I am not intending to insult you, simply trying to provide a possible answer. If this is a completely unfair representation, then I apologize, and I will move on.

Can you reconsider your expectations? If "mass-everything-destruction.dek and no-turn-for-you.dek types" lead to losses, is this the end of the world? Can you still find a way enjoy the game?

Finally, as others have said, at some point you have to be vocal. Tell people you don't want to play against their "no fun" deck. If you are unwilling to have these type of conversations, nothing will change.

[WizardSpartan]

First, have you ever thought about hosting your own group? Are the people that you have enjoyed playing against? Make a list and specifically invite those players. If you are currently playing online, send messages to people asking them when is good for them and make your own pod. This should help avoid the unexpected player. When the lockdown is over, consider inviting people to your place and creating your own pod.

Second, this is the internet and I don't know any of you. So, I don't know how to say this any more gently, but if the problem follows you wherever you go, have you ever considered that you are the problem? If I am being entirely honest, some of the language and tone of your posts comes across as indignant, self-righteous, and elitist. I am not intending to insult you, simply trying to provide a possible answer. If this is a completely unfair representation, then I apologize, and I will move on.

Can you reconsider your expectations? If "mass-everything-destruction.dek and no-turn-for-you.dek types" lead to losses, is this the end of the world? Can you still find a way enjoy the game?

Finally, as others have said, at some point you have to be vocal. Tell people you don't want to play against their "no fun" deck. If you are unwilling to have these type of conversations, nothing will change.

Very well said.

A lot of the stuff you said (esp. first couple sentences of para. 2 and para. 3 as a whole) definitely tie into some of my experiences online. I also have big problems with only having fun when winning, and what you've said matches with the reasons why I have difficulty enjoying many games.

[jlutzxinc]

I don't care about winning, but I do want to play.  I would start my own group but none of my friends want to exclude others.  I will continue to work on standing up for myself and saying that I don't want to face {insert unfair strategy here}.  I thank all of you for your time and support.

[Slyvester12]

I realized I forgot to mention what I usually do to pubstompers. Just build an Urza stax combo deck and ruin their day a few times. At some point, they'll probably mention it's not fun to play against. Just tell them you feel the same about their normal decks and segue into playing more casual builds.

[jlutzxinc]

That sounds a bit like WizardSpartan's suggestion about the "punisher" Decks burning themselves out as well.  That may also be worth trying.