[[Primer]] - Sliver Overlord, The Godfather (cEDH)

[MrPonzi]

Hello guys, I'm here since I would like to submit my primer!
Currently this is the Sliver Tribal list with the highest number of stars.
Would love to see it in the primer list! <3

https://deckstats.net/decks/122386/1199660--primer-sliver-overlord-the-go/en#show_description

[Rinzler]

Hey, this is a nice primer!  Some recommendations I have for now is to touch up on the spelling and grammar a bit, make a list of the cards in the deck, with a reason for each inclusion, and a section on cards you decided not to put in, and the reasons for those.

[MrPonzi]

I'm Sorry for the grammar, if you can tell me the errors I can correct them ASAP.

Most of my card inclusion / exclusion are in the change log, since the deck evolvere many times. Do you think It would be better ti have a dedicated section for those?

[Morganator 2.0]

I've sent you a private message going over all of the spelling and grammar mistakes. I figure it would be better to go over it there.

After that, you're absolutely going to want a single card discussion section. You'll find one in all of the official primers. That section is where you explain why you are including each card, and why you have chosen to exclude others. It's more organized than a changelog. You don't have to go over every single card (I usually ignore most lands) but it's important to go over some key cards. Some things that I would like to know (and that I think you should include in the single card discussion):

• When casting Patriarch’s Bidding, how often do you have a grave full of slivers? Do the games go on for a long time, or is there some other factor here?
• If Toxic Deluge has worked well for you, have you also tried Fire Covenant?
• How useful are Striking Sliver, Venom Sliver, and Sentinel Sliver? These seem like the weakest of the slivers you’re packing.
• Be sure to include how you work around Dormant Sliver’s downside. It won’t be obvious to all readers.
• What are your targets with Worldly Tutor and Eladamri’s Call? Can’t Sliver Overlord just get all the same things?
• Other notable exclusions to talk about: All of the slivers that provide P/T buffs, Cavern of Souls, Coat of Arms, Constricting Sliver, Crypt Sliver, Diffusion Sliver, Kindred Discovery, Kindred Summons, Morophon, the Boundless, Root Sliver, Shared Animosity, and Sliver Hive.

Lastly, there are a few things that I would like you to go over, and incorporate into the primer if possible. You don't need to include all of these in the core of the primer if you don't think it's relevant.

• What does a good starting hand look like?
• In the intro you said that you are often the first target in your pod. What kind of decks are you going up against? Because if you’re always the one getting targeted, it could just be a power discrepancy. It might also be useful to go over what your good/bad matchups are, but that's fully optional.
• I would like a bit more of an explanation for why you’re using Sliver Overlord as opposed to The First Sliver or Sliver Queen as the commander. Have you tried using these as a commander? And if so, how did they play differently that made you want to use Overlord instead?
• In the section for “Finding the right tool when needed” would you be able to include some examples of which cards you would grab for a given circumstance? For example: how do you know when you should grab Crystalline Sliver as opposed to Sliver Hivelord? Are there any slivers that you grab for a given matchup?
• What turn does Sliver Overlord typically come out? At about what turn are you able to combo off? Besides the combo cards themselves, what prior setup do you need to have before you can combo?
• How often do you win using combat damage versus a combo? Also, which of the combo cards are typically dead cards?
• How often do your opponents gain control of Sliver Overlord and then steal all of your slivers?
• It seems like you have very few draw spells. Do you go into top-deck mode a lot, or is this just not an issue?

[MrPonzi]

Hi Morganator,

thanks for all your suggestion, I'll do my best to add the missing sections and fix the grammar you've pointed out on your pm.
I'll use also your suggestion in order to explain some exclusions and some strategies as well.

[MrPonzi]

Ok, just a little update here: I've fixed some grammar issues.
Next thing I'll go for the single card discussion, but it will take some time. After that I'll try to go in depth with what you've asked, mostly about hands, matchups and so on.

[MrPonzi]

So, I did my best in order to fulfill the lack of my primer with new sections (Starting Hand and Single Card Discussion), fixing grammar, and adding more info here and there with some exclusions:

In the intro you said that you are often the first target in your pod. What kind of decks are you going up against? Because if you’re always the one getting targeted, it could just be a power discrepancy. It might also be useful to go over what your good/bad matchups are, but that's fully optional.

I really don't say that, I just advice people in a "fun" way to be prepared to be some sort of archenemy.

In the section for “Finding the right tool when needed” would you be able to include some examples of which cards you would grab for a given circumstance? For example: how do you know when you should grab Crystalline Sliver as opposed to Sliver Hivelord? Are there any slivers that you grab for a given matchup?

I've replied to this question here and there in the primer, also in the single card discussion.

How often do you win using combat damage versus a combo? Also, which of the combo cards are typically dead cards?

None of the card I've picked up can be considered as a dead card. In single card discussion each card got it's purpose and alternative uses.
The fact that I'm using combat damage instead of combo is totally depending on the matchups, having this information is not helpful at all. It might lead player to pick the "most used" one instead of the "most effective one" depending on the situation. I don't want to mislead player that way, I'm sorry.

How often do your opponents gain control of Sliver Overlord and then steal all of your slivers?

I can't understand this answer. I mean, I've read many primers and the meta is currently running Gilded Drake if you're playing blue in cEDH. So this question should be asked to each deck that is commander dependent, like Najeela, Sisay, Tymna/Thrasios, Niv-Mizzet Parun and so on.

It seems like you have very few draw spells. Do you go into top-deck mode a lot, or is this just not an issue?

I've answered this here and there in the primer, if it's not clear, let me know.

Even if something else is missing, don't hesitate to tell me, I'll do my best to create a better primer.

[Aetherium Slinky]

Could you just re-answer the questions instead of referring to answering "here and there"?

[MrPonzi]

Could you just re-answer the questions instead of referring to answering "here and there"?

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. What I mean is that the answers to those question are not in a single place on my primer, but they can be found in multiple parts of the primer. I'm not referring to a post on the forum...

[Morganator 2.0]

I think what MustaKotka was trying to say is that you should answer the questions directly in your reply, as well as adding them to the primer. Or at the very least say where in the primer you answered that question. I've sent you a second message going over the grammar mistakes. Spoiler alert: it's mostly just replacing colons and semi-colons. Just a few more things to go over now.

• This might just be a grammar mistake, but in the combo section you say "Generally those combo may happens around turn 6-7+, depending on how good your starting hand was and if you're encountering many or zero issues with your opponents." Saying many or zero issues is an oxymoron. Are you trying to say that this deck can combo off turn 6 or 7 if there is zero interaction, or that it will combo turn 6 or 7 regardless of interaction?

• How often do your opponents gain control of Sliver Overlord and then steal all of your slivers?
  

  I can't understand this answer. I mean, I've read many primers and the meta is currently running Gilded Drake if you're playing blue in cEDH. So this question should be asked to each deck that is commander dependent, like Najeela, Sisay, Tymna/Thrasios, Niv-Mizzet Parun and so on.

  I think you've misunderstood what I was asking. I don't want to know how each specific deck plans to gain control of Sliver Overlord (many of them won't), I wanted to know how often that someone does gain control of Sliver Overlord and if you have a specific counter-play for when someone tries to take your commander.
• Other notable exclusions to go over: Cryptolith Rite, Distant Melody, Harsh Mercy, Herald's Horn, Mirror Entity, Synapse Sliver, Wheel of Misfortune.

So that's all I have. Does anyone else have questions about this primer? Any exclusions where you're stuck wondering why it isn't in the deck? If no one else has anything to add, make whatever changes to the primer you have to do, we'll do a third round of grammar corrections, and then this should be a well polished primer.

[Slyvester12]

Why Blast Zone and Engineered Explosives? What are you usually targeting with them?

Also, how often do you get screwed over by Wild Growth? Would you be better off with a Birds of Paradise or a Carpet of Flowers?

[MrPonzi]

Why Blast Zone and Engineered Explosives? What are you usually targeting with them?

For example, last night, I saw a t2 bob, t2 Drannith Magistrate and a couple of Talismans/Signet on opponent's board. Engineered explosives did a great job on getting rid of those. Sometimes blast zone is really good in order to kill 1 CMC dorks used by opponents.
If used midgame, slivers can be saved by Sliver Hivelord, so that's why they are still so good.

Also, how often do you get screwed over by Wild Growth? Would you be better off with a Birds of Paradise or a Carpet of Flowers?

Ok, I really can't understand what do you mean for "screwed", but your point made me think I should get back Carpet and remove Wild Growth, so thanks for that. About Birds of Paradise, it's not the best ramp that I want. Efficency first, Birds of Paradise can't get me mana when they ETB and also they are not a sliver: the only sliver exclusion here is Dockside Extorsionist since right now it's probably the best ramp card in the format.

[MrPonzi]

When casting Patriarch’s Bidding, how often do you have a grave full of slivers? Do the games go on for a long time, or is there some other factor here?

When you need to recover from your own Toxic Deluge or an opponent wrath, this card is the right solution. Tribal decks will benefit the most out of it so watch out for them. Generally it will pay you off if you have 3+ slivers on your graveyard. If at least one of those dead slivers is a key one like dorks, lords or combo one, just go for it.

If Toxic Deluge has worked well for you, have you also tried Fire Covenant?

Right now I'm using it in other decks and i found Engineered Explosives and Toxic Deluge more efficient in term of resources.

How useful are Striking Sliver, Venom Sliver, and Sentinel Sliver? These seem like the weakest of the slivers you’re packing.

Striking Sliver: this might feel a weak sliver but it saves us from combat damage sometimes and it's a cheap CMC sliver, very helpful when you need to tutor for a sliver with Sliver Overlord in order to combo out with Intruder Alarm and a dork sliver. Venom Sliver: giving deathtouch to our baby means that people will attack you less and block you less, which is great. Sentinel Sliver: attacking and keeping our babies untapped is good when you have slivers with activated abilities.

Be sure to include how you work around Dormant Sliver’s downside. It won’t be obvious to all readers.

Dormant Sliver: it's a great draw engine, with the setback of having an army of walls. If we need to attack and win the game and this baby is on the battlefield, Basal Sliver, Hibernation Sliver and Necrotic Sliver helps to get rid of it.

What are your targets with Worldly Tutor and Eladamri’s Call? Can’t Sliver Overlord just get all the same things?

They cost less then our standard commander ability, can be used before our turn. Main targets can be Gemhide Sliver / Manaweft Sliver because they are great in general, and can help us cast our commander.

What does a good starting hand look like?

We generally want a couple of lands (at least one with green), at least 1 ramp card, 1 or 2 slivers, a tutor or draw card and 1 protection/interaction card. Our plan is to benefit from our commander as soon as possible, and sometimes we tutor for a Gemhide Sliver / Manaweft Sliver asap, so we can have a lot of mana in early turns. Having some protection will help us in order to live longer, or keep playing for more turns. If you have fetches in your opening hands, the first land you will fetch into will be Breeding Pool, since green/blue are great colors for early turns; as a second pick I would fetch into Watery Grave / Overgrown Tomb, depending on what fetches we have and what cards we kept, for example Utopia Sprawl or Vampiric Tutor.

In the intro you said that you are often the first target in your pod. What kind of decks are you going up against? Because if you’re always the one getting targeted, it could just be a power discrepancy. It might also be useful to go over what your good/bad matchups are, but that's fully optional.

I really don't say that, I just advice people in a "fun" way to be prepared to be some sort of archenemy.

I would like a bit more of an explanation for why you’re using Sliver Overlord as opposed to The First Sliver or Sliver Queen as the commander. Have you tried using these as a commander? And if so, how did they play differently that made you want to use Overlord instead?

In the past I've also tried Sliver Hivelord or Sliver Legion as our commander, but they are too casual compared with a tutor on your command zone: they might work if you want to lower down your deck power, but generally you'll have to fix your list in order to draw/tutor more. Sliver Queen can be a great commander, but not on a sliver tribal deck. That way you can build a deck to fully support combos around her without wasting slots on slivers or on cards that support the tribe. Same goes for The First Sliver: the best Food Chain commander, ever: he can access all the colors in order to support a really solid combo and let you to cast your whole deck for free.

In the section for “Finding the right tool when needed” would you be able to include some examples of which cards you would grab for a given circumstance? For example: how do you know when you should grab Crystalline Sliver as opposed to Sliver Hivelord? Are there any slivers that you grab for a given matchup?

Tutors are used in order to build our strategy: we will look for Gemhide Sliver / Manaweft Sliver if we want to speed up the cast of our commander, or we will find for combo pieces / card draw cards if we plan to run out of cards soon.

What turn does Sliver Overlord typically come out? At about what turn are you able to combo off? Besides the combo cards themselves, what prior setup do you need to have before you can combo?

Generally those combo may happens around turn 6-7+, depending on how good your starting hand was and regardless of interaction. You can easily block someone else's combo and protect your strategy.

How often do you win using combat damage versus a combo? Also, which of the combo cards are typically dead cards?

None of the card I've picked up can be considered as a dead card. In single card discussion each card got it's purpose and alternative uses.
The fact that I'm using combat damage instead of combo is totally depending on the matchups, having this information is not helpful at all. It might lead player to pick the "most used" one instead of the "most effective one" depending on the situation. I don't want to mislead player that way, I'm sorry.

How often do your opponents gain control of Sliver Overlord and then steal all of your slivers?

Generally not so often. I usually try to keep a protection spell in hand when I do cast Sliver Overlord, depending on what I'm facing. Spot removals are great agains Gilded Drake, general counterspells does the magic too. It's good to know your opponent's decks in order to understand what their strategies are.

It seems like you have very few draw spells. Do you go into top-deck mode a lot, or is this just not an issue?

It's generally not an issue since our commander is something pretty similar to a draw engine. If we're eager on draw, Dormant Sliver is pretty efficent and it has great Synergy with top deck tutors.


Hope this can help.

[MrPonzi]

I think what MustaKotka was trying to say is that you should answer the questions directly in your reply, as well as adding them to the primer. Or at the very least say where in the primer you answered that question. I've sent you a second message going over the grammar mistakes. Spoiler alert: it's mostly just replacing colons and semi-colons. Just a few more things to go over now.

• This might just be a grammar mistake, but in the combo section you say "Generally those combo may happens around turn 6-7+, depending on how good your starting hand was and if you're encountering many or zero issues with your opponents." Saying many or zero issues is an oxymoron. Are you trying to say that this deck can combo off turn 6 or 7 if there is zero interaction, or that it will combo turn 6 or 7 regardless of interaction?

• How often do your opponents gain control of Sliver Overlord and then steal all of your slivers?
  

  I can't understand this answer. I mean, I've read many primers and the meta is currently running Gilded Drake if you're playing blue in cEDH. So this question should be asked to each deck that is commander dependent, like Najeela, Sisay, Tymna/Thrasios, Niv-Mizzet Parun and so on.

  I think you've misunderstood what I was asking. I don't want to know how each specific deck plans to gain control of Sliver Overlord (many of them won't), I wanted to know how often that someone does gain control of Sliver Overlord and if you have a specific counter-play for when someone tries to take your commander.
• Other notable exclusions to go over: Cryptolith Rite, Distant Melody, Harsh Mercy, Herald's Horn, Mirror Entity, Synapse Sliver, Wheel of Misfortune.

So that's all I have. Does anyone else have questions about this primer? Any exclusions where you're stuck wondering why it isn't in the deck? If no one else has anything to add, make whatever changes to the primer you have to do, we'll do a third round of grammar corrections, and then this should be a well polished primer.

I've tried to reply to every point in my previous post and added the exclusions you suggested. Also grammar has been fixed as you suggested!

Let me know if I might be missing something else

[MrPonzi]

Great update!
Removed Sensei's Divining Top, Patriarch's Bidding, Striking Sliver, Plains, Island added Emiel the Blessed, Birds of Paradise, Diabolic Intent, Finale of Devastation, Noxious Revival. Emiel lines are really powerful with this deck, since Sliver Overlord is a great infinite mana outlet, so I wanted to add more consistency to those lines.

Some info about Emiel lines:
 - Emiel the Blessed + Dockside Extortionist (when it can create at least 4 treasures) = infinite colored mana
This combo is so powerful that itself it will makes you win the game. With infinite colored mana you can basically cast whatever sliver you like since you can cast Sliver Overlord first, then tutor for slivers, then cast them and win. This is generally the fastest way to win a game, since it's an easy 2 card combo.
 - Emiel the Blessed + Mana Echoes + 3 slivers on the battlefield = infinite sliver etb
This combo can also be abused in different way. If Lavabelly Sliver is on the battlefield, you can kill your opponents just out of it. If Dormant Sliver is on the battlefield, you can draw your deck. If Cloudshredder Sliver / Heart Sliver and Gemhide Sliver / Manaweft Sliver are on the battlefield, you can generate infinite colored mana, cast your commander, tutor for everything and win.

I've also added missing single card discussions and exclusions for cards impacted by this update.