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Author Topic: Fix mono white in EDH  (Read 4088 times)

Cosmic_Insight

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Fix mono white in EDH
« on: January 14, 2021, 06:16:41 am »
We all know that mono-white in EDH is terrible, with hardly any competent ways to ramp and gain card advantage. What types of cards could wizards introduce to actually fix mono-white?

I made this custom commander as an example:

Nara, Sun-Touched Adventurer 2WW
Legendary Creature - Human Scout
Hexproof
This spell can't be countered.
At the beginning of your upkeep, choose one:
-Draw two cards, then exile a card from your hand
-Search your library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped
-Return target card from your graveyard to your hand
Ascend: As long as you have the city's blessing, you may choose two of the options listed above on your upkeep.
When [CARDNAME] leaves the battlefield, but all cards exiled with her into their owner's hand.
1/3

A package of draw, ramp, and recursion stapled onto a mono-white commander. Wizards could print something like this, why haven't they?
God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. owo

jlutzxinc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2021, 06:36:43 am »
That looks insanely broken.  You do realize cards are allowed to not do everything, right?

To answer your question, WOTC doesn't want all of those things that they decided 28 years ago that White must never be allowed to do to be placed on a monowhite card.  I agree that that's ridiculous but don't have 28 years of game design experience so I'm not qualified to tell them how they should have handled the issue.

EDIT: Okay; maybe not "insanely" broken, but still extremely strong.  The "beginning of your upkeep" condition would be reasonable if she weren't BOTH uncounterable AND immune to spot removal; as is your opponents would need to spend a wipe just to stop you from doing whatever you please, and her CMC is low enough that she'll drop before most wipes would be live.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 06:55:36 am by jlutzxinc »

WizardSpartan

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2021, 04:07:47 pm »
We all know that mono-white in EDH is terrible, with hardly any competent ways to ramp and gain card advantage. What types of cards could wizards introduce to actually fix mono-white?

I made this custom commander as an example:

Nara, Sun-Touched Adventurer 2WW
Legendary Creature - Human Scout
Hexproof
This spell can't be countered.
At the beginning of your upkeep, choose one:
-Draw two cards, then exile a card from your hand
-Search your library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield tapped
-Return target card from your graveyard to your hand
Ascend: As long as you have the city's blessing, you may choose two of the options listed above on your upkeep.
When [CARDNAME] leaves the battlefield, but all cards exiled with her into their owner's hand.
1/3

A package of draw, ramp, and recursion stapled onto a mono-white commander. Wizards could print something like this, why haven't they?
Probably because:
  • A creature innately having hexproof isn't directly within white's identity. Knight of Grace & Angelic Overseer is as close as white gets.
  • A creature being uncounterable isn't within white's color identity. At all. Not a single mono w creature has "can't be countered".
  • A white card that straight up draws 2 cards in exchange for exiling a card from your hand is also not something white does. It usually is tied to something else, like something your opponents are doing or some specific them white is known for (small creatures, lifegain, equipment, etc.).
  • Yet again, searching your library for any basic land and putting it into play tapped isn't in the identity of any color but green.
  • And (guess what I'm going to say), a Regrowth effect is not within white's identity.
  • The Ascend ability is pretty cool. Idk about it for power level reasons, but it is definitely a nice idea.
  • Lastly, while getting all the cards exiled with her is interesting, I don't see that ever working on an actual card that works within what white is supposed to do.
I think that being modal is definitely interesting, but maybe instead of triggering on upkeep, it could trigger on attack?

Nara, Sun-Touched Adventurer 2WW
Legendary Creature - Human Scout
Ascend
Indestructible
Whenever Nara attacks, choose one. As long as you have the city's blessing, you may choose two different options instead:
  • Choose an opponent. That opponent may draw a card. If they do, draw 2 cards.
  • If an opponent controls more lands than you, you may search your library for a Plains card, put it onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
  • Return target permanent card with converted mana cost 3 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.
1/3

Not sure about the indestructible, might be too much. I just want her to be able to attack without much support (don't want to devolve her into a combat-based commander).
Not sure about templating, don't @ me. ;)

jlutzxinc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2021, 04:14:57 pm »
That version is actually a LOT more reasonable.  It still does a lot but at least now it's templated similarly to several other White cards, plus Cyclonic Rift, Path to Exile and Swords to Plowshares (and any countermagic) now work against it so it's quite a bit less broken in that regard; being "on attack" leaves in the extra turn for each opponent to do something but opens other avenues (like Pacifism et al.) as well.  That's something I could see Wizards printing for a future Commander product and is almost balanced enough to get into something else like a Modern Horizons even.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 04:16:54 pm by jlutzxinc »

Cosmic_Insight

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2021, 04:20:49 pm »
But the question remains, would you consider playing mono-white with a commander like this? Thanks for balancing it out, btw.
God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. owo

jlutzxinc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2021, 04:28:33 pm »
That would depend on how bad you think monowhite is even after the fact (as well as whatever else they might print before they make something like this); I'd consider it but I'm not an expert at anything and it being super good likely wouldn't be good enough to make up for how hard they're STILL pushing Blue (you'd think they'd back off and let other colors shine but nooo).
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 08:16:48 pm by jlutzxinc »

WizardSpartan

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2021, 05:12:50 pm »
But the question remains, would you consider playing mono-white with a commander like this? Thanks for balancing it out, btw.
I mean, probably not. It's not particularly inspiring, it just tries to fix mono white's problems in one card. To make mono white more appealing to build, it's going to take a long time. Its problems are systemic, and it will take years of slowly releasing good mono white cards like Smothering Tithe, Verge Rangers, etc. to make the color pair appealing.

For example, green isn't appealing because of a certain card. It's appealing because it has a plethora of ramp options, good noncreature permanent removal, more than reasonable card draw, and good creatures.

I think for mono white to be good while not shattering its identity, Wizards need to introduce new mechanics that expand white's identity. What that would be, I have no idea, honestly. That's for Wizards to figure out.

But that's me. I'm sure people who just love the idea of mono white in general would love a commander that allows them to not just get outclassed every game.

Varatius

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2021, 05:30:15 pm »
See white has a very interesting problem it is the color that relies on other players to do things (outside of aggro)  which in theory makes it the ideal color for multiplayer formats.  However to balance that in commander is hard because eventually white will get so far ahead that if it doesn't close the game out fast it falls behind just to catch back up later (if possible).   This also makes it difficult to balance in no multiplayer formats because what white does well is very powerful in formats like modern and standard so any card made to help balance in commander cannot be put into standard sets because it would allow white to be the overwhelming powerhouse in all other formats.

jlutzxinc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2021, 05:35:52 pm »
@WizardSpartan: I think along the same lines.  I'd play it because I do like monowhite, but I still don't know whether something else might be needed.

@Varatius: That's why I said they could (should?) put it in a supplemental product like Modern Horizons; I agree it would probably be too much for Standard but could jump directly to an eternal format like Commander just fine.

Larc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2021, 08:00:34 pm »
I think we can make it still more reasonable!

Nara, Inspired Leader (2WW)
Legendary Creature - Human Noble

Ascend

As long as you have the city's blessing, Nara, Inspired Leader has indestructible.

Whenever Nara attacks, choose one:
-Choose target opponent. That player may draw a card, if they do draw 2 cards.
-Choose target opponent. If that player has more lands than you, you may search your library for a Plains card and put it onto the battlefield. If you do, shuffle your library.

[1/3]

WizardSpartan

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2021, 08:07:32 pm »
I think we can make it still more reasonable!

Nara, Inspired Leader (2WW)
Legendary Creature - Human Noble

Ascend

As long as you have the city's blessing, Nara, Inspired Leader has indestructible.

Whenever Nara attacks, choose one:
-Choose target opponent. That player may draw a card, if they do draw 2 cards.
-Choose target opponent. If that player has more lands than you, you may search your library for a Plains card and put it onto the battlefield. If you do, shuffle your library.

[1/3]
Yeah! That's a lot better. I wasn't 100% comfortable with just giving her unconditional indestructible, and tying her ability to swing safely to something white generally likes doing anyway is definitely more in-theme.

I still like the recursion ability (it's probably the coolest part of the card to me), though.

jlutzxinc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2021, 08:12:00 pm »
Seconded; I wouldn't have ditched that choice either, and even with it this newest version basically looks Standard-legal (unconditional Indestructible and Ascend granting TWO choices seemed "off").  I could even see this as a 2/3 or 3/3 for 2WW (the latter would be really pushing it though).  If it were this version but with the recursion as a 2/3 I'd absolutely build a Deck around it for Brawl even if not Commander proper.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 08:14:27 pm by jlutzxinc »

Larc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2021, 08:29:24 pm »
True even 1/4 or 2/4 could be reasonable.

Also if we add the last choice effect:
-Return target permanent with converted mana cost 2 or less from your graveyard to the battlefield.

I just don't think we should have the full sun titan effect on a 2 mana cheaper creature with potential indestructible.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 08:32:47 pm by Larc »

jlutzxinc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2021, 08:37:00 pm »
That's fair.  Again, if this were real I'd totally use it.

Larc

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Re: Fix mono white in EDH
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2021, 08:39:26 pm »
Also I know this is off topic but I do think City's Blessing wasn't utilized to its full flavor potential.

My version of this creature depicts a noble who is more inspired and resilient with the city's blessing on his side.

I also thought up something like this:

Black Sorcery (2BB)
Each opponent sacrifices a creature they control with the highest power.
If an opponent has the City's Blessing, they lose it and you gain City's Blessing instead. (Needing the amount of permanents does not apply for you)

Naming it 'Attack the Capital' might be too soon though... =X