How much card draw do you use?

[Morganator 2.0]

We've had a topic where we talked about how much mana ramp we use, and one for removal spells, but oddly enough, nothing on the right amount of draw to use. Have a look at your decks and see how much card draw (or things like card draw) you use.

Here are my numbers:

Brudiclad - 13 (and 1 pseudo draw)
Edric - 19
Haldan+Pako - 8 (and 5 cast from exile effects)
Krenko - 7 (and 2 cast from exile)
Mishra - 14 (and 4 pseudo draw)
Scarab God - 14 (with 7 mill effects)
Vaevictis - 6 (with 3 pseudo draw)

So I tend to use 12 draw spells, and 4 things that are a bit like card draw. Is this the same for everyone?

[kruegerreed]

I have about 9 sources in my deck, but I count tutors as card draw:
https://deck.tk/1N6N9ROC

Of my draw sources, 4 of them are repeatable draw engines as opposed to one-shots.

IDK about other folks, but my mentality is "if it thins the deck, I've drawn cards". For example, I didn't include Farseek and Cultivate in the list, but they allow me to pull cards from the deck so I consider them draw sources and ramp.

[The Golgari Guy]

So, for me "card draw" is everything that leaves me with more cards in hand (or anyway available to be cast) than before I cast the spell.

For example, tutors (including land tutors as Rampant Growth) are not card draw and cantripis (like Opt) are not card draw. Commune with Lava, on the other hand, is card draw, since the cards are available to be cast.

With these definitions, here are my numbers:

Xenagos 10
Araumi 10
Lathril 9
Mazirek 13
Doran 10
Braids 8
Meren 9

So that on average I play 9.86 pieces of card draw.

This does not surprise me, since I aim to have at least 10. The exception are decks where I can't find enough "good" pieces of card draw that fit with the deck's strategy (e.g. Braids).

I think that in general, decks that rely on more complex strategies should have more card draw than decks with more linear strategies. For example, in Mazirek I have a particularly high number of card draw pieces since the deck's strategy relies on going a bit wide, having sacrifice synergies and also +1/+1 counters synergies.

I just wanted to mention that some people believe that if your commander draws you lots of cards you don't need as much card draw in your deck. I personally disagree, since I believe that your deck should be able to function even if you are unable to cast your commander (either because you can't pay the tax, or because of some other factor, e.g. a Darksteel Mutation or an Oubliette).

[Aetherium Slinky]

Picked five decks I like playing:

- Merieke Ri Berit combo: 14 draw sources including Sensei's Divining Top which is a draw-combo piece
- Kami of the Crescent Moon mass bounce & group draw: 14 draw sources
- Breya, Etherium Shaper: 9 draw sources
- Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith & Thrasios, Triton Hero landfall: 13 draw sources
- Rosheen Meanderer: 12 draw sources

All in all looks like I like playing 10+ draw sources so definitely more than what Command Zone suggests. Having plenty of ramp and draw just make the deck run so much smoother in my opinion.

[robort]

First I say it depends on how many cards I am drawing and do I have to discard? For instance Rishkar's Expertise vs Idol of Oblivion. I usually net way more cards with Rishkar's then Idol. However they are of course in different decks. I will say that my avg is about 6 draw per deck with a few leaning heavily on 10-12. But lately I am realizing that my decks with a lower amount of draw really do need to up that avg to at least 8-10.

[WizardSpartan]

With the same metrics as Golgari Guy in mind:

Meren: 7 (and 7 pseudo draw)
Alesha: 8 (and 5 pseudo draw)
Kumena: 9 (counting Kumena as 2, which is probably under-representing him)
Ezuri: 12

Both of my Meren and Alesha decks are built to make their respective commanders into (basically) draw, and a lot of my card advantage puts stuff into the gy, which means it looks like I don't have much draw. Also, I have a lot of one-sided removal, so a one-sided boardwipe like Dusk // Dawn in Alesha probably generates more advantage than regular draw spells in other decks.

[Valmias]

This was actually a lot more nuanced than I expected when I went to count. I also like to tailor my draw to what the rest of the deck is doing (rather than rely on generally good pieces), so I had to adjust for what counted as "draw" for the purposes of the specific deck. For example, reanimator decks end up treating the graveyard like a bigger hand, so mill is basically draw there. Cards like Aegar, the Freezing Flame and Gilt-Leaf Archdruid are actual draw, but depend heavily on having built the deck around their presence. And ramp spells feel a lot like draw spells in Tatyova, Benthic Druid but probably shouldn't count even there. I guess for me, "draw" is whatever leaves me with access to more of my deck, so Nyx Weaver or Vanish into Memory can work a lot like draw in some decks but just don't in others.

On cantrips, some decks want overall card advantage (okay, most), but some just want to keep hitting triggers, and cantrips are the "spend money to make money" approach to refueling. They won't put you ahead, but they can keep you active without sacrificing advantage. But only as long as the deck wanted to cast them anyway, e.g. Shadow Rift and Slip through Space, but probably never just Opt.

Anyway, some of my numbers:

Adeliz, the Cinder Wind - 15
Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - 19
Tatyova, Benthic Druid - 11
Zada, Hedron Grinder - 8
Purraj of Urborg (it's okay to laugh) - 12
Doran, the Siege Tower - 10
Nicol Bolas - 12

Looks like I prefer around 12, and I should probably run more in Zada and not rely on shenanigans. I agree that the more complex strategies require more draw to be consistent. I'm curious to know how people feel the "build around" draw like mill in reanimator or tribal-based draw compares to straightforward draw like Harmonize and Treasure Cruise.

[Antonio_2708]

Hey, I think it depends a lot on what your deck proposes to do. For example, on my Narset deck I only have four card-buying spells, on my Rashmi deck six, and why? At Narset, the ideal is to have control of what she will cast when she hits, you don't want to have a card with CMC 10 in your hands, at Rashmi you want to have an average of a cast magic per turn, this guarantees you to "buy" a card. So back to the initial question: What does your deck propose to do? This is what you should be looking for, not magic formulas and cabalistic numbers of card numbers for each one you should use. Another example, a friend of mine plays Yawgmoth, the deck has a single draw engine, the Yawgmoth itself, it is probably one of the strongest Yawgmoth decks that I have the misfortune to play against.

Other issues, Sensei's Divining Top is not a buying mechanism, if you have no way to shuffle your grimore to renew your top, it is a card you should not use.

Some colors are not good at buying cards, so maybe that shouldn't be your focus. Some colors, for example white decks are horrible to buy cards, so maybe it is resource management that you should focus on. This is a very subtle thing and it is difficult to learn, because sometimes we are addicted to playing mono-blue, simic or any combinations that buy many cards, so when we want to change the deck we don't change our way of thinking .

So back to the initial question: What does your deck propose to do?
Focus on that, focus on the odds that achieve your goal.

Below are some of my decks and the number of cards that have "draw" written on them.

Anya: 7 cards
Rashmi: 6 cards
Marchesa Black Rose: 8 cards
Titania: 11 cards
Narset: 4 cards
Glissa The traitor: 10 cards
Kalitas, Traitor:  6 cards

[stuffnsuch]

It really depends for me, and especially depends on what you consider a draw spell.  Crash Through is a draw spell in my spell slinger deck, because I'm not caring about the trample, and I'll often get a copy of it for multiple cards.  I would not consider it a draw spell if I was playing a combat centric deck.  In my Jhoira, Weatherlight Captain deck, I have next to no cards that are just there for draw, since my commander is a beast of a draw engine all by herself.  Some decks I need very specific cards and prefer tutor effects over draw, while others, the cards aren't as important as it is to just access as many as possible, so draw really matters.  Rather than number of cards that help me draw, I just like to focus on how effectively my draw helps me do what I aim to do in the deck.  Sometimes a Whip Silk and Verduran Enchantress are all you need.