Mana Dorks vs. Mana Rocks vs. Land Ramp

[Morganator 2.0]

In situations where you're playing a deck that includes green, which of these options for mana ramp do you prefer? They all have their pros and cons.

• Mana dorks cost the least amount of mana (usually one), but they can't be tapped for mana right away and are readily removed.
• Mana rocks cost about 2 mana, can be tapped for mana immediately, and are less commonly removed.
• Land based ramp is the most expensive, can sometimes be tapped immediately, sometimes not, but lands are also the least likely to get removed.

They all have their trade-offs, so which would you rather use?

[CleanBelwas]

I voted before I read the "if you are playing green" caveat.

** Edit: turns out you can change your vote. Neat! **

In green based decks, land ramp wins for me. It perhaps has a tendency to be slightly slower (a turn two talisman lets you play a one drop but a turn two rampant growth doesn't, for example) but I play in a casual meta where this slight loss of speed isn't a huge downside and lands tend to not get messed with so it usually feels like the safest method of ramping with the smallest potential for blow outs.

Then dorks, due to the inherent nature of creatures being generally more useful and easier to recur. Late game, a BoP can block a big dumb dragon and a mind stone can't.

I very rarely use rocks in green decks, but mostly because I don't play the fast mana rocks (Crypt and Vault, and even playing less and less sol ring), and at that point, a two mana ramp spell seems more stable than a two mana rock.

All of that said, I almost never play green. Of my 15(ish) decks, I have exactly 1 that has green in it. When not in green, mana rocks all the way.

[The Golgari Guy]

So, this is a very complex and interesting topic. I play a lot of green, and it's my absolute favorite color (yeah, I'm a big Timmy).

The short version of my answer is that it depends, but in general if I'm playing green I'm basically never playing mana rocks, unless there's a very specific reason to do so. My first choice is land-based ramp, with mana dorks coming second in general.

My "go to" and-based ramp spells, and those which I consider to be the best in a vacuum, are: Three Visits, Nature's Lore, Farseek, Into the North (which just requires you to play some snow lands), Rampant Growth, Sakura-Tribe Elder.

The reason to favor land-based ramp is pretty simple: artifacts can be removed (Bane of Progress, Vandalblast etc.) or shut down (Collector Ouphe, etc.), whereas lands are mostly "safe" due to the fact that mass land destruction and other spells/permanents that mess with lands (Blood Moon, Back to Basics) are generally frowned upon in EDH.

That said, I don't just include all of the above mentioned spells in all of my green decks, and the reason is quite simple: I strongly believe that what makes an EDH deck strong is synergy.

Therefore, if I'm playing a creature-based deck, that contains cards such as Beast Whisperer and Guardian Project, I will try to boost the number of creature-based ramp spells: Sakura-Tribe Elder, but also Wood Elves, Yavimaya Dryad, Springbloom Druid, and also mana dorks, such as Birds of Paradise, Llanowar Elves etc.

The reason is that in a creature-based decks, these ramps spells could still draw me a card or trigger some other synergies if they are drawn later in the game, so that they are never really dead.

An example of synergy-driven choice: in my Hamza, Guardian of Arashin deck, I play Devoted Druid, which I wouldn't normally play in a non-Elf deck. However, the synergy with +1/+1 counters is incredible.

If I'm playing an Enchantress deck, the same line of reasoning will lead me to include enchantment-based ramp spells: Fertile Ground, Overgrowth, Utopia Sprawl...

If I'm playing a graveyard recursion deck, like Meren of Clan Nel Toth, I want creatures that have a powerful effect when recurred from the graveyard: once more Sakura-Tribe Elder, which is the all-star, but also Dawntreader Elk and Yavimaya Granger. In this particular deck, I believe that these cards are better than Three Visits, Cultivate and Arcane Signet because of the much higher synergy they provide. Here is my current Meren list for reference: https://deckstats.net/decks/149180/1755348-meren-aristocrats-midrange.

I have found that I basically never play "generically good" ramp spells such as Cultivate, since there is always a more synergistic option. I've also wrote down a list of possible replacements for Cultivate based on which kind of deck you're playing some time ago: https://deckstats.net/decks/149180/2019513-replacements-for-cultivate.

The last thing I would like to say is that casual EDH player are way too low on mana dorks such as Birds of Paradise (whereas cEDH players know their power really well). It's true that they can be removed by board wipes, but there is basically nothing that compares to them when it comes to speed: as far as 1 mana ramp, it's basically dorks or Sol Ring.

They basically always give you at least 1 or 2 mana, and often much more, and if you're playing them they probably will trigger some card draw or other forms of card advantage in your deck. It's very anecdotal, but I once won a game through two Cyclonic Rift with my Xenagos deck  because I had Guardian Project and three mana elves, so that after every Rift I could just dump those into play and draw 3 cards.

I could probably go on even more with considerations on ramp spells, but that's probably enough for the moment! 

[robort]

I would say lands hands down easily. With so many things that can search and put lands into play there isn't an equal.

[Morganator 2.0]

My preference is for mana dorks. Playing a mana dork on turn 1 is one of the strongest opening plays in this format, and because there are so many mana dorks, you can rely on having this as an opening play. Come turn 2 you'll have enough mana to play more ramp and another play of some kind. I just don't get this kind of result with the other two types of mana ramp.

After that I'll include artifacts. Being able to use them for mana immediately has helped on many occasions. Lastly I'll use land-based ramp, but only stuff like Rampant Growth and Sakura-Tribe Elder. The three-mana options for land ramp just aren't worth it.

[The Golgari Guy]

My preference is for mana dorks. Playing a mana dork on turn 1 is one of the strongest opening plays in this format, and because there are so many mana dorks, you can rely on having this as an opening play. Come turn 2 you'll have enough mana to play more ramp and another play of some kind. I just don't get this kind of result with the other two types of mana ramp.

After that I'll include artifacts. Being able to use them for mana immediately has helped on many occasions. Lastly I'll use land-based ramp, but only stuff like Rampant Growth and Sakura-Tribe Elder. The three-mana options for land ramp just aren't worth it.

I agree about dorks (and of course, I also agree that 2-mana ramp is much, much better than the 3 mana one), however I'd never consider artifacts in green decks .

If you want to use your mana straight away, maybe because you have a super low curve (which would be in agreement with your love of mana dorks), there are still at least 2 ramp spells that I would include above any mana rock in a green deck: Nature's Lore and Three Visits. They fetch untapped lands and fix your colors with shocks and similar lands. They are just phenomenal.

I could see artifact-based ramp in green decks with a very low-to-the-ground curve and more than 3 colors. In that case, Rampant Growth for example is too slow and doesn't fix enough.

Another case would be 4+ color decks that can't afford to skew their mana base too much towards green. In that case, mana rocks can be better since you can always cast them and never risk them getting stuck in your hand because you're missing the G mana. This could be the case especially for budget decks.

[emyu]

In competitive EDH, dorks win easily, unless you have a very legitimate reason to run rocks instead (e.g. Curious Control, which utilizes board wipes). In a more casual meta, I prefer land ramp, because it's much more reliable.

[Slyvester12]

I prefer dorks. They're efficient, fast, and usually not the target of early removal. Sure, wipes can hurt, but no one is using Swords to Plowshares on Birds of Paradise as their turn one or two play. If they are, that's more of a threat assessment problem than a mana dorks being bad problem.

Also going with artifacts second, but only if you have the better ones. With access to Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, etc... artifacts just outperform lands in my opinion.  If the deck is relying on signets and talismans, I might opt for land ramp or a mixture. Unless artifacts are a major theme, like my myr combo deck.

Land ramp just feels too slow outside of dedicated big mana decks or landfall decks. Cultivate feels bad, Rampant Growth feels low impact, and Farseek gets shocks and duals, but they still come in tapped.

I think my main reason for not liking land ramp is it feels unnecessary in decks with decent other ramp and card draw. Sure, my dorks my get wiped and set me back, but if I'm making land drops thanks to drawing, I'm usually at 5-6 lands before a wipe. That's a pretty good base for rebuilding, and I've already benefited from having more early mana than the deck rebuilding from 8-10 lands, so the interim probably won't be THAT bad. They get a couple of turns to play catch up, but I'll use my early lead to coast through a couple of turns while I play more dorks. And that's if the wipe comes out on turn 5 or so. Later, and I'll usually have a more substantial lead, or even just a way to avoid the wipe.

[Aetherium Slinky]

If I'm on green I usually go for a mixture of dorks and land ramp but only the two mana ones. This way I get three mana for turn two and I can often times ramp a second time from there to get a lot of mana for turn three. I don't like Cultivate or Kodama's Reach. If I'm in any other colour I like the Talisman cycle a lot. Has saved my butt plenty of times and they're not usually removed. I get the occasional Collector Ouphe but that's fine.

[Potato Chop]

Depends on the deck. Mono green artifacts-matter is a thing, though it is ... ahem ... rare, and in there I would rely primarily on rocks. Dorks are more useful in a creatures-matter deck or Elf tribal, but overall I think that land ramp is better. It's effective and hard to interact with.

[The Golgari Guy]

Also going with artifacts second, but only if you have the better ones. With access to Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, etc... artifacts just outperform lands in my opinion.  If the deck is relying on signets and talismans, I might opt for land ramp or a mixture. Unless artifacts are a major theme, like my myr combo deck.

Land ramp just feels too slow outside of dedicated big mana decks or landfall decks. Cultivate feels bad, Rampant Growth feels low impact, and Farseek gets shocks and duals, but they still come in tapped.

Personally I was not considering fast mana as Crypt and the Moxen (and also Sol Ring). Of course if you have those you should play them in basically any deck, but I don't think this is what Morganator meant when asking about artifact ramp.

Also, if the problem with land ramp is that the lands come in tapped, how about Three Visits / Nature's Lore?
We can probably agree that these two at least are better than a 2 mana artifact that adds 1.

The same could be said about Skyshroud Claim, but this one is a bit slower and not any deck wants it.

[anjinsan]

Not enough people play the enchantment ramp IMO. Fertile Ground is basically an Arcane Signet! And, on the whole, enchants are probably slightly safer than artifacts. Of course spot land removal can get you, as with the bouncelands, but it is very rare and probably not that smart for someone to burn a strip mine on just that. Overgrowth is riskier but that's also a good mana ratio and I think probably still worth it. Sure beats Manalith, anyway.