Do we still use Counterspell?

[Morganator 2.0]

I don't even look at Counterspell anymore when I'm making a blue deck. There are just so many other good options that cost less mana, are easier to cast, and don't cost much more money (aside from the really expensive counterspells).

Does everyone else feel the same way? Do you still use Counterspell, or do you gravitate towards other options?

[ApothecaryGeist]

Short answer:  Yes.  I do still use Counterspell.


Long answer:  for decks with 3 or more colors, I tend to use counterspells that only have one blue pip.  But for mono-blue, or even two-color decks, My first pick is ... well, my first pick is Mana Drain.  But then Counterspell next.  And if I'm looking for an unconditional hard counter, I'm looking for Counterspell.

[Potato Chop]

People will always argue with me, so I'm probably wrong, but I think that Arcane denial is just better than counterspell - especially in a spellslinging deck. It only costs 1 blue pip and draws you two cards for gas. The only downside is that it draws your opponent a card, but let's be honest, it's not that big of a deal. The thing you countered is probably more vital than whatever they're going to draw, and in the end, you end up on top in card advantage. With Counterspell, you equalize.

[Slyvester12]

People will always argue with me, so I'm probably wrong, but I think that Arcane denial is just better than counterspell - especially in a spellslinging deck. It only costs 1 blue pip and draws you two cards for gas. The only downside is that it draws your opponent a card, but let's be honest, it's not that big of a deal. The thing you countered is probably more vital than whatever they're going to draw, and in the end, you end up on top in card advantage. With Counterspell, you equalize.

I think you might be misreading Arcane Denial. YOU draw one card, the OPPONENT draws two. You break even on cards, but the opponent is up one at the end. I like Counterspell because it's a nice, simple, UU and that spell doesn't happen. I include it in basically every blue deck that's not running Mana Drain, Force of Will, etc... and usually even in decks up to 3 colors (assuming one of the other colors is green and I have decent ramp).

[Potato Chop]

People will always argue with me, so I'm probably wrong, but I think that Arcane denial is just better than counterspell - especially in a spellslinging deck. It only costs 1 blue pip and draws you two cards for gas. The only downside is that it draws your opponent a card, but let's be honest, it's not that big of a deal. The thing you countered is probably more vital than whatever they're going to draw, and in the end, you end up on top in card advantage. With Counterspell, you equalize.

I think you might be misreading Arcane Denial. YOU draw one card, the OPPONENT draws two. You break even on cards, but the opponent is up one at the end. I like Counterspell because it's a nice, simple, UU and that spell doesn't happen. I include it in basically every blue deck that's not running Mana Drain, Force of Will, etc... and usually even in decks up to 3 colors (assuming one of the other colors is green and I have decent ramp).

That's embarrasing. I have always played it correctly, so I'm not sure what happened there! Slip of the mind I guess - I haven't played a game for a month now (lockdown).

I agree with you. Counterspell is nice and simple - I still run it in my blue / simic decks that have a lot of ramp.

Edit: The fact that I misspelled "embarrassing" makes it even more embarrassing

[The Golgari Guy]

I'll play Counterspell in a mono U control-heavy deck, but not in much else.

Leaving the very expensive all-stars aside (Mana Drain, Force of Will, Force of Negation, Pact of Negation), there still are a lot of options that I'll play over Counterspell in a 2+ colors decks.

Let's start by saying that 1-for-1s in general are bad in EDH. They are necessary, but they will make you and another player (the one that gets their thing removed/countered) go down 1 card, making the 2 other player virtually go up one card each. This is why I think that, in EDH, Arcane Denial is better than Counterspell...even in mono U.

This is also why I'll also prefer cards that are more versatile, although more expensive, such as Mystic Confluence, Sublime Epiphany and Archmage's Charm.

If you are in a 2+ colors deck, that UU cost start to get really annoying. That's when I'd start considering, apart from Arcane Denial, cards like Delay (which is a great counterspell), Unsubstantiate (which can hit creatures and gets around "can't be countered"), and even Negate.

Yes, I'd argue that in a 2+ colors deck even Negate may be preferable to Counterspell, since most of the times you want to counter noncreature spells anyways since most wincons are noncreature spells (apart notable exceptions such as Craterhoof Behemoth, combo pieces etc...)

[Aetherium Slinky]

I still use it in two-colour decks. Three...it's a bit of a stretch. I still have it in my Esper primer but I've been thinking about taking it out. It's surprisingly hard to cast if you deck needs blue for something else, too.

[WWolfe]

Without getting into the merit of the hyper expensive counters (Mana Drain, Fierce Guardianship, etc.), I still would run it in decks with two colors or less. Three colors or more I find the double blue pips is troublesome at times.

OT- someone mentioned Delay. Saw something funny the other day, I'll go post it in the Games You've Enjoyed thread to not hijack this thread, but trust me, it's funny.

[Morganator 2.0]

So maybe this is just me. I find that after including stuff like Miscast, Swan Song, Stubborn Denial, and Spell Pierce, I don't really need anything else. That's what I need for my protection package. I'm not going to use a counterspell like a removal spell when I can just run removal spells.

So I guess I should also ask, what counterspells do you put in your deck before you put Counterspell in?

[ApothecaryGeist]

So maybe this is just me. I find that after including stuff like Miscast, Swan Song, Stubborn Denial, and Spell Pierce, I don't really need anything else. That's what I need for my protection package.

With things like Miscast and Spell Pierce ... Do you find that late game, when I typically need to counter things, that opponent's don't tap out?  And therefore they can pay the mana to not have their thing countered?

[Morganator 2.0]

So maybe this is just me. I find that after including stuff like Miscast, Swan Song, Stubborn Denial, and Spell Pierce, I don't really need anything else. That's what I need for my protection package.

With things like Miscast and Spell Pierce ... Do you find that late game, when I typically need to counter things, that opponent's don't tap out?  And therefore they can pay the mana to not have their thing countered?

You'd think right? But strangely enough that hasn't been a problem. The two things I really need to worry about are combos and boardwipes. In both cases they cost a fair amount of mana and the opponent more often than not can't pay the cost. Even for single-target removal, my opponents will leave up just enough mana to cast the spell on my turn, but not enough to pay the extra cost from my counter.

[ApothecaryGeist]

You'd think right? But strangely enough that hasn't been a problem. The two things I really need to worry about are combos and boardwipes. In both cases they cost a fair amount of mana and the opponent more often than not can't pay the cost. Even for single-target removal, my opponents will leave up just enough mana to cast the spell on my turn, but not enough to pay the extra cost from my counter.

Definitely not the case in my playgroup.  10 mana on board ... cast Damnation ... still got 6 mana left to pay for the soft counters.

[Aetherium Slinky]

... still got 6 mana left to pay for the soft counters.

Nope, not here. I always use my mana to the fullest. Except when I'm playing control in which case I do leave mana up. But those pay more coutners are rare in our meta... Hard counters here all the way. I play Dovin's Veto whenever I can. It's somehow usually easier to cast than Counterspell.

[Landale]

I rarely use any counterspells in the first place, since I rarely play blue. People for some reason seem to react worse to "No" than "And now I get rid of it", so I tend to stick to removal options since I don't have anyone super competitive to play against.
I do run Drown in the Loch, Lazotep Plating, Flip the Switch, and Crush Dissent in my Wilhelt deck though. I know Lazotep Plating's not literally a counter, but most of the time it might as well be.

[Rust71898]

So, taking the question at face: Yes, we still do use counterspell. As we all know in commander groups, there's someone who will play a card no matter how odd or bad it is.

In my own opinion: This question can't be answered in anything nearing an absolute, as our entire format is based on group dynamics and personal enjoyment over hard rulings and power levels.

In my own opinion, after I smack the academic and philosopher out of my thought process: Yes, I love Counterspell. It's UU to counter any spell. There's few better counter spells when looking at it in the void and none of them are anywhere near as cheap as this card.

Is it objectively worse then: Mana Drain, Force of Will, Force of Negation, Fierce Guardianship .....? Yes, no question. That being said the vast majority of players are not willing to spend the money for them or are willing to spike their play group by using them. Thus, this card fills that need. If you're in a really fast meta for your playgroup then cards like: Spell Pierce, Miscast, and Mana leak better? Yes, no question. However most commander decks are not that low to the ground that it only takes 1 or 2 early spells getting countered to end their game. Most players, if they have some experience anyway, won't tap out for something in M1 unless they don't care if it gets countered or they can't do anything about it anyway. Are there counterspells that do more for you like: Dissipate, Summary Dismissal, Rewind, Desertion ....? Yes, no question. However, those spells generally have a CMC of more than 2, making it a bit awkward to hold the mana for unless you have a Vedalken Orrery effect.

The repetition in that text wasn't for its own sake. The big reason why most people still use counterspell is because it falls in just the right place for most needs. It's not expensive or spikey. It's not too fast or too slow. It isn't too narrow. It doesn't give anything to your opponents. If you want a counterspell for a deck, but don't know which one your deck needs; you can always put in a Counterspell and swap it out later. Although it's a hair unfortunate that it's UU, but if that's the biggest complaint I have; I'm happy to play it!