Are 3-mana rocks still used?

[Morganator 2.0]

Before the talisman cycle was finished it was pretty common to see people using Darksteel Ingot, Coalition Relic, and Chromatic Lantern. Now that we have talismans, signets, Arcane Signet, and others like Liquimetal Torque, we have efficient and budget options at 2 mana. Does anyone still bother to use 3 mana rocks in their decks?

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

Yes. Totally. The Borderposts in my Total Nature of the Beast: Wildfield Borderpost and Firewild Borderpost. It basically enters tapped for 1 colorless with the drawback truly of returning back a land. I play the Signets as well, but this deck is my only EDH one where I play mana rocks. I am really happy with the state it is indeed and very grateful for the stars.
Regards and Happy Holidays:
Chavo

[Morganator 2.0]

How do the borderposts ramp you up? Let me see if I understand this.

• Turn 1 you play a basic (no other land will do).
• Tap it for one mana and return it to play the borderpost.
• Turn 2 you replay the basic. You're still at two mana on turn 2.

This is the same result if you instead choose to play two lands. Is there something I'm missing?

[ApothecaryGeist]

I don't see Darksteel Ingot much anymore.  It used to be very popular.  Same with Coalition Relic.


In 4 and 5 color decks I still see Chromatic Lantern and Commander's Sphere being utilized.  If you want your mana rock to say "mana of any color" then you still need some 3-mana rocks.  (After Arcane Signet, of course.)


I do see newer/younger players who don't have deep collections still using some 3 mana rocks.  They just don't have enough Signets&Talismen to fill all their decks.


There are a few regulars at our LGS who still utilize Gilded Lotus.  Every time it hits the table we reminisce about how it used to be a good card.    [size=78%]  [/size]

[mcamokk]

It depends on the Deck and on wich level i want to build it. But normally i cut all Mana Rocks above 2. I 5-Color there can be a Chromatic Lantern to fix the Mana.

[CleanBelwas]

I'll play 3 mana rocks in 4+ colours just because they offer such good fixing.

I'll occasionally play one if it offers additional utility too, such as midnight clock or the 3 colour rocks that cycle from ikoria.

Generally though, I've found myself favouring 4 mana rocks instead.

I've increasingly found having a high density of 2 drop rocks (of which there are now many to suit all budgets) and a few 4 mana rocks to be much more preferable (assuming the 4 mana rock taps for two mana).

This is mostly in 1 or 2 colour decks, and it will depend on the curve of the deck etc, but I find I value the jump from 4 to 6 (or 7 if you hit your land drops) more than 3 to 5.

Hedron Archive, Everflowing chalice and thran dynamo tend to me my go to 4 mana rocks, assuming my colour requirements are suitable.

I play very casually though, so all of this should be considered through a casual lens.

[The Golgari Guy]

You know that when it comes to defending 3-cmc ramp, I'll be there! 

I think that WotC has made an excellent jobs in recent years in making 3-cmc rocks that have enough utility to be included in decks, even over some 2-cmc options (disclaimer: I'm only talking about casual EDH).

I've been testing Midnight Clock in Braids, Conjurer Adept and Skyclave Relic in Syr Konrad, the Grim, and found them excellent for the utility they provide. Clock is great as a personal Timetwister, and and Relic is excellent in the late game as a 6-mana indestructible Thran Dynamo. Incidentally, Relic is a strictly better Darksteel Ingot.

Other 3-cmc rocks that I haven't personally tested but that seem like they may be worth it: Cursed Mirror, Strixhaven Stadium, Crowded Crypt, Heraldic Banner and The Celestus. Stadium and Banner seem like they could be very powerful in token/go wide decks, and the Crypt seems like an obvious include in Zombie decks.

Another great 3-cmc "rock" that seem worth including in several decks is Inspiring Statuary. It seems excellent in decks with lots of equipments, since you can tap them for mana with no downside.

I think that Chromatic Lantern is overplayed. If you have a good manabase, you don't need it, and if you have a bad manabase, it's not going to solve the problem unless you play a bunch of tutors in the deck just to get it out.

[The Golgari Guy]

Incidentally, I've recently made a list of what I think are the best ramp spells for EDH, and this include a section with 3-cmc rocks specifically:

https://deckstats.net/decks/149180/2367125-best-ramp-for-edh/en

Everyone should also check out Morgan's list which inspired my own (all of Morgan's lists are great and worth the follow actually):

https://deckstats.net/decks/82803/804049-the-best-mana-ramp-for-edh/en

[STARBREAKER111]

How do the borderposts ramp you up? Let me see if I understand this.

• Turn 1 you play a basic (no other land will do).
• Tap it for one mana and return it to play the borderpost.
• Turn 2 you replay the basic. You're still at two mana on turn 2.

This is the same result if you instead choose to play two lands. Is there something I'm missing?

Nope, the only reason you would play them over a basic land is to play them as a 3 mana mana rock, basically any other rock is better than it, even the locket cycle is better.

[Morganator 2.0]

I don't see Darksteel Ingot much anymore.  It used to be very popular.  Same with Coalition Relic.

There are a few regulars at our LGS who still utilize Gilded Lotus.  Every time it hits the table we reminisce about how it used to be a good card.   

I think I have only one deck that uses Chromatic Lantern and Gilded Lotus, and I'm pretty sure that I still have a deck that uses Coalition Relic. It seems like my experience is similar to yours. If I do see mana rocks at 3 or greater it's those ones. The newer or less experienced players will use lockets, keyrunes, and the like. I do also sometimes see Everflowing Chalice and Hedron Archive. But for the most part, it's signets and talismans all the way.

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

How do the borderposts ramp you up? Let me see if I understand this.

• Turn 1 you play a basic (no other land will do).
• Tap it for one mana and return it to play the borderpost.
• Turn 2 you replay the basic. You're still at two mana on turn 2.

This is the same result if you instead choose to play two lands. Is there something I'm missing?

Yes, totally it has drawback. I play it for flavor as well and for liking the types. I agree. I saw it here I think in a deck or a post and got inspired by it and decided to use them. I use the others as well, but in Modern Splicer Deck. It's totally for flavor. No way you aren't more right than you can be. It's totally true that it's cheap, budget and even slow type of mana rock. I just play it for flavor. Even if it enters for 3 later in the game? Not so bad for a budget mana rock in my opinion to enter untapped one and without the drawback of returning the land. I play it for flavor. I admit it's not the best. Probably not better than the Guild mana rocks? Personal opinion. I didn't put that many mana rocks as a whole in the deck. I play all the Signets: Boros, Selesnya and Gruul. I just gave those Borderposts a chance. And then are the higher 5-mana that are final: Gilded Lotus and Tome of the Guildpact and that's that. It's a Beast deck and you totally inspired me, Morganator with your fantastic list that I found Krosan Groundshaker and Aether Charge at LGS. I didn't think that Tribally before, man. Thank you. Couldn't find Totem Speaker. But, I got totally inspired by you, Morg. Sorry, I got carried away. Back to the 3-mana rocks: a LOT. WOW, Obelisk of Naya? Nice. Probably will give it a shot. I am still building it, Morg. To finish this carrying away and go back on the 3-mana rocks and mana rocks at all, like ask and stop: does anyone have favorites? Keyrunes? Obelisks? Talismans? Banners? Cluestones? All are 3-mana. No one's saying that the Borderposts are the bests, but still are respectable for 3. Even 1 colorless but slight beginning drawback. Does anyone have favorites still?
Regards:
Chavo

[Slyvester12]

I think that Chromatic Lantern is overplayed. If you have a good manabase, you don't need it, and if you have a bad manabase, it's not going to solve the problem unless you play a bunch of tutors in the deck just to get it out.

I had a very good (fetches, shocks, Mox Diamond, etc...) mana base in my Scion of the Ur-Dragon and Chromatic Lantern was still useful. Scion is a mana sink though, and a particularly good one at that, so extra mana was always helpful. It did, occasionally, fix my mana too. For me, needing WUBRG for the deck to function means that several layers of redundancy make the deck run more smoothly. That deck also ran a lot of ramp in general. I would not suggest the Lantern in anything under four colors, though.

[alipton2]

You probably shouldn't be running manalith anymore, but three cmc rocks are still fine if they do double duty.

Honored Heirloom is a rock and graveyard control. Heraldic Banner is a rock and an anthem. The Celetius is a rock, and does day/night stuff. cultivator caravan is a rock and a vehicle.

you get the idea

[The Golgari Guy]

You probably shouldn't be running manalith anymore, but three cmc rocks are still fine if they do double duty.

Honored Heirloom is a rock and graveyard control. Heraldic Banner is a rock and an anthem. The Celetius is a rock, and does day/night stuff. cultivator caravan is a rock and a vehicle.

you get the idea

100% agree, this is the point I was trying to make 

[The Golgari Guy]

I think that Chromatic Lantern is overplayed. If you have a good manabase, you don't need it, and if you have a bad manabase, it's not going to solve the problem unless you play a bunch of tutors in the deck just to get it out.

I had a very good (fetches, shocks, Mox Diamond, etc...) mana base in my Scion of the Ur-Dragon and Chromatic Lantern was still useful. Scion is a mana sink though, and a particularly good one at that, so extra mana was always helpful. It did, occasionally, fix my mana too. For me, needing WUBRG for the deck to function means that several layers of redundancy make the deck run more smoothly. That deck also ran a lot of ramp in general. I would not suggest the Lantern in anything under four colors, though.

Yeah, I can maybe see it in 5-colors decks, but I'd still consider swapping it for Skyclave Relic for example, which I feel is really underplayed.