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Author Topic: Pre-game discussion template  (Read 785 times)

Morganator 2.0

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Pre-game discussion template
« on: January 19, 2022, 04:42:50 pm »
I've been thinking about the pre-game discussion as of late. You know, that conversation where everyone says "My deck is a 7!" Yeah... that. I want to find a way to improve the quality of a pre-game discussion so everyone gets a better idea of the power levels at the table, and what to expect from the game. Here's my idea for a template. In order, you state:

  • "I would like to play [commander name]"
  • State the theme of the deck (control,group hug, aggro, combo, lifegain, etc.)
  • Briefly go over the gameplan.
  • Broadly state the win-condition and what turn you plan to win on (keep in mind that everyone stops counting after turn 6).
  • Mention if the deck has a strong/weak interaction, card draw, or tutor package.



Examples

"I would like to play The Scarab God. It is a reanimator deck with weak control elements in the early game and strong in the late game. It wins through lifedrain from the Scarab God and aims to win some time after turn 7. This deck also has a very strong card advantage package."

"I would like to play Krenko, Mob Boss. It is a proactive tribal deck that can have both aggro and combo wins, typically on turn 5 or 6. The deck will make a lot of goblin tokens and try to find a win from there."

"I would like to play Edric, Spymaster of Trest. It is a very strong counterspell control deck that uses 1/1 evasive creatures to draw cards. The deck wins by looping extra turn spells and typically tries to win around turn 5. Because of the heavy control package, this deck can easily stop early game combos."

"I would like to play Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire. This is a Primal Surge deck which means it's all permanents. The deck wins by casting Primal Surge, or through commander damage with Vaevictis. Both of these happen very late. Vaevictis is able to remove many permanents and adds an element of randomness to the game."



What do you think of this as a template? To me it seems like a good way to convey the strength of your deck and to allow others to describe their deck in a similar manner, to hopefully prevent miscommunication during the pre-game discussion. I'm open to any criticisms you may have.

MustaKotka

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2022, 06:03:19 pm »
I feel like some mention of the self-perceived power level would be nice. But in trying to keep it objective I would use vague real life data points like "precon", "mostly stock precon", "competitive EDH (cEDH)". That would give some context to your experiences with the deck in terms of something others can relate to. I know there isn't a good "middle ground" comparison but maybe you could say that, too.

"I would like to play The Scarab God. It is a reanimator deck with weak control elements in the early game and strong in the late game. It wins through lifedrain from the Scarab God and aims to win some time after turn 7. This deck also has a very strong card advantage package. It wins all games against precons easily but cannot quite squeeze a win against a fully tuned competitive EDH deck."

"I would like to play Krenko, Mob Boss. It is a proactive tribal deck that can have both aggro and combo wins, typically on turn 5 or 6. The deck will make a lot of goblin tokens and try to find a win from there. Krenko can sometimes win a pod full of fully tuned cEDH decks but its winrate is below 25% in such a pod."

For example I honestly cannot gauge your Vaevictis' power level at all. You say it's slow but it has answers and I don't know what to make of the "adds randomness" statement. Is this an oppressive deck or can it sit comfortable at a table full of slightly modified precons?
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Bonethousand

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2022, 06:08:18 pm »
Super solid template.

I think it's also pretty effortless, but important, to just survey the table initially about what kind of a game everyone is looking for. Honestly, just saying, "I'm looking for a casual, battlecruiser'y game because I haven't played an old deck in a while," or "I just proxied up a new deck and it's pretty competitive; do you want to play a fast one?" goes a long way to setting the tone on the pregame conversation.

Morganator 2.0

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2022, 07:37:39 pm »
I feel like some mention of the self-perceived power level would be nice. But in trying to keep it objective I would use vague real life data points like "precon", "mostly stock precon", "competitive EDH (cEDH)".

That's a very good idea. I was hoping that stating the turn the deck wins on would be a good proxy for that, as I've encountered a lot of people that claim to have cEDH decks... and don't. But thinking it over, I like this better. It would help gauge just about where the deck's strength is. So now as a revision:

  • "I would like to play [commander name]"
  • State the approximate strength of the deck (cEDH, fringe, tuned casual, upgraded precon, etc.)
  • State the theme of the deck (control,group hug, aggro, combo, lifegain, etc.)
  • Briefly go over the gameplan.
  • Broadly state the win-condition and what turn you plan to win on (keep in mind that everyone stops counting after turn 6).
  • Mention if the deck has a strong/weak interaction, card draw, or tutor package.



"I would like to play Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire. This is a mid-powered Primal Surge deck which means it's all permanents. The deck wins by casting Primal Surge, or through commander damage with Vaevictis. Both of these happen in the late game. The deck, or rather Vaevictis, is good at removing threatening permanents.

That looks better.

robort

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2022, 04:37:27 pm »
I usually do some of the things in this template. I do however say I am playing "X" commander and I will pass/turn my commander to those who may not know what it does while explaining what my commander does. I then proceed to give a description of what the deck is going to do. I will then explain if the deck actually has any combos or win cons in the deck while also saying that anybody can easily inter act with my deck because I normally don't use protection stuff in most of my decks. Like Grismold for instance I will say when I pull him out say "This makes and gives tokens while destroying those tokes. He wants token creatures to die, gets big really fast and can 1 shot a player. However I don't run any way to protect Grismold and he can easily be removed. There is 1 combo in it but I don't tutor for that combo and hopefully draw into that combo. That is what this deck does.

https://deckstats.net/decks/52552/1657333-grismold-s-s-s-s-token-express

It doesn't have revel in riches anymore. I took that out a long while ago and haven't updated the deck in a while either.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 08:32:24 pm by robort »
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Morganator 2.0

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2022, 07:20:58 pm »
Can I get a few volunteers? I just need to see some examples of other people using this template to describe their deck, as if they were about to enter a game. Then post the decklist so I can compare the description to the actual deck. You can give more than one deck if you wish.

MustaKotka

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2022, 08:24:14 pm »
Can I get a few volunteers? I just need to see some examples of other people using this template to describe their deck, as if they were about to enter a game. Then post the decklist so I can compare the description to the actual deck. You can give more than one deck if you wish.
Absolutely. Remind me if I don't reply in 24h. What are you planning to do with the data?
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Morganator 2.0

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2022, 08:31:32 pm »
Absolutely. Remind me if I don't reply in 24h. What are you planning to do with the data?

I want to read the description, make a judgement on what I expect the deck's power to be like, and then look at the decklist to see if it holds up to that.

The ultimate goal here is to have a template for a 30-second summary that everyone will give at the beginning of the game, so people can discuss if they don't want to play a certain deck, or if they think they should switch to a different deck.

anjinsan

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2022, 12:23:01 am »
Whilst, in general, I do think that this kind of discussion is a good idea, it does rob some of the surprise of the deck. I kinda don't want people to know that my Ruric Thar deck has like six creatures in it or that Syr Gwyn is trying to get Sunforger out to play Mardu Knights Control.  :)

Can I get a few volunteers? I just need to see some examples of other people using this template to describe their deck, as if they were about to enter a game. Then post the decklist so I can compare the description to the actual deck. You can give more than one deck if you wish.
Still, I'll bite.

"I would like to play Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. It's a casual deck, with some powerful cards. The theme is, obviously, Azorius Big Spells. The gameplan is to use cost reducers to play mahoosive haymakers and draw a load of cards and stuff. It aims to outvalue opponents and eventually win via Shark Typhoon, Dream Trawler, or Mirrorweave. It has a lot of cheap interaction and all the classic staple draw engines and tutors but not an unusually large number of them."

"I would like to play Acererak the Archlich. It's a casual but fairly powerful deck, though it could stand some more tuning. The theme is casting Acererak; it's actually basically a storm deck in disguise. The gameplan is to use cost reducers and big mana to be able to cast Acererak over and over and speedrun through the Dungeon of the Mad Mage and cast big spells off it. However it most commonly wins through Bontu's Monument or extort, typically with K'rrik. It's possible to "go infinite" if enough pieces are out but usually wins before that. It is vulnerable to some kinds of anti-storm/stax but Acererak himself is very resilient against common removal. It has fast mana, tutors, and decent card draw (but often doesn't care); it sometimes starts slowly but ramps up quickly."

"I would like to play Braids, Conjurer Adept. It's a casual jank deck though it does run some powerful cards. The theme is group hug stax. The gameplan is to make life miserable for creatures whilst dropping big artifacts with Braids. It's weak on wincons, which might even be beating people with animated lands or pinging them with Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Probably aims to win around turn 30 or so. It's particularly effective against creature-based decks so long as enough/the right stax pieces can be assembled, particularly token decks. It usually loses. It has classic draw spells and tutors."

CleanBelwas

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2022, 11:02:29 am »
Can I get a few volunteers? I just need to see some examples of other people using this template to describe their deck, as if they were about to enter a game. Then post the decklist so I can compare the description to the actual deck. You can give more than one deck if you wish.

Sure thing.

https://deckstats.net/decks/132604/1592789-naturellement-les-aristocrats

- This is a Queen Marchesa deck.
- It's an aristocrats deck with a "humans matter" sub theme.
- I would rate it as a 5/6. It's pretty good at what it does, but aristocrats as a strategy will only take you so far and isn't particularly well suited to multiple players and 40 life.
- The game plan is to play creatures, attack with them, then sacrifice them for value.
- The win condition is to reduce my opponents life totals to 0. Usually by a combination of attacking and draining. It's not a fast paced deck and looks to draw games out into the long game. It is good at killing opponents stuff and looks to control the board state with a decent removal package and grave pact locks. Very light on tutors. Good against creature decks, bad against combo.

The Golgari Guy

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2022, 12:25:28 pm »
Can I get a few volunteers? I just need to see some examples of other people using this template to describe their deck, as if they were about to enter a game. Then post the decklist so I can compare the description to the actual deck. You can give more than one deck if you wish.

This template seems quite good! Here are a couple of my decks:

I'd like to play my Meren of Clan Nel Toth deck. It's a highly tuned midrange deck with an aristocrats theme. The main gameplan is to outvalue my opponents by recurring value creatures from the graveyard, and eventually grind a win with aristocrats effect. I also play an infinite combo in case the game goes long or I'm unable to kill someone with aristocrats. The deck usually wins after turn 6 unless I can assemble the combo earlier. I play a lot of interaction and several strong tutors that can also find pieces of my combo if needed.

https://deckstats.net/decks/149180/1755348-meren-aristocrats-midrange


I'd like to play my Imoti, Celebrant of Bounty / Keruga, the Macrosage deck. It's an optimized casual deck that contains no card with mana value less than 3. The gameplan is to ramp as much as possible, let Imoti stick and start cascading to generate overwhelming value. I can then close the game through combat or sometimes by looping extra turn spells. The deck is slow to start but if it's not stopped I can easily end up with 20+ lands in play and less than 20 cards in the library. I usually win after turn 6. Because of the Cascade theme, I don't play heavy interaction. The deck doesn't contain a single tutor.

https://deckstats.net/decks/149180/2327835-imoti-and-keruga-present-big-b
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MustaKotka

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2022, 06:03:04 pm »
  • "I would like to play [commander name]"
  • State the approximate strength of the deck (cEDH, fringe, tuned casual, upgraded precon, etc.)
  • State the theme of the deck (control,group hug, aggro, combo, lifegain, etc.)
  • Briefly go over the gameplan.
  • Broadly state the win-condition and what turn you plan to win on (keep in mind that everyone stops counting after turn 6).
  • Mention if the deck has a strong/weak interaction, card draw, or tutor package.



I would like to play Merieke Ri Berit. It's a high power deck meaning it will beat upgraded precons like nothing but it won't stand a chance at a proper cEDH table with fully tuned deck. My list is fully tuned with all the expensive goodies and staples but the strategy is just too weak against the top tier decks in the format. Merieke Ri Berit isn't integral to the plan and in fact it's a combo deck that tries to combo off with telegraphed creature based combos. The deck has Isochron Scepter and Dramatic Reversal in it so all the lines aren't as telegraphed as others. The idea is to get some infinite untaps and then force the opponents to draw from an empty deck. Uninterrupted the deck tries to combo off around turn 7 - give or take a turn. The deck doesn't have all free counterspells for reasons but its interaction package is pretty heavy.
https://deckstats.net/decks/93006/2053346-merieke-ri-berit-high-power-un



My commander is Rosheen Meanderer. It's somewhere between a low power deck and a mid power deck meaning it's pretty much on par with (seriously) upgraded precons. It's an X-spell based creature deck that tries to pump out medium sized Hydras, smash face and finish with a pump spell or just plain incremental damage from creatures. It doesn't really have a turn it "wins on" because it doesn't chip away at life totals very fast. You're completely safe until turn four. It has a decent draw package and it tries to compensate its slowness with a somewhat serious interaction package - it even carries a couple of counterspells.
https://deckstats.net/decks/93006/811329-rosheen-meanderer-x-fatties



I'm looking to play with my Kozilek, Butcher of Truth deck. It's a bit random in terms of power level because so much depends on lucky draws but it sits somewhere around a cery average casual deck. It's a combo deck at heart with Kozilek being essential to the game plan. It serves as a draw engine and a control-style threat. It doesn't mind its commander being removed at all because it ramps really hard and its plan is actually to cast Kozilek many times for the draw it provides. The win condition is a four card combo with no interchangeable pieces making it a little hard to assemble. It's a slow deck but once the combo goes off it's really hard to stop it later on. Your best bet is to remove the combo pieces in response to the last one being deployed. It has tutors, recursion and can find things back from exile easily.
https://deckstats.net/decks/93006/2333577-assemble-the-modules-kozilek-b



This deck here is helmed by Kami of the Crescent Moon. Its power level depends on how much interaction the opponents are running: the fewer interaction cards it faces the better chance it has at winning the game. The game plan is to force everyone to draw a lot of cards and then punish people for drawing cards. In the meanwhile it tries to survive with pillowfort. It has a few interchangeable cards that punish having too many cards in hand but the games tend to be pretty long, maybe 10-15 rotations, because the deck has a very limited amount of tutors. It has an insane draw package and it's surprisingly consistent even if a bit on the slow side. It carries some counterspells but it's not a counterspell tribal deck.
https://deckstats.net/decks/93006/1536141-mommy-my-hand-hurts-kami-of-th



"Rocks and Trash" is a deck helmed by Toggo, Goblin Weaponsmith and Thrasios, Triton Hero. The power level is in the upper casual sector but it's not a high power deck per se. It's a landfall deck and its goal is to vomit a lot of lands onto the battlefield. Toggo makes tokens and Thrasios is just for the colours and it serves as a mana dump so no shenanigans there. It has multiple avenues to victory some of which are alternative win conditions. It tries to put pressure on people mid game and finish before late game. It has copious amounts of ramp, a decent interaction package, solid draw but it carries no tutors (or combos). Despite being in blue it also has zero counterspells so it is not a control deck by any measure.
https://deckstats.net/decks/93006/1839571-rocks-and-trash-toggo-goblin-w



I named this deck "Gary's Cloning Factory" because it's a Sakashima of a Thousand Faces & Ravos, Soultender partner deck that has a hidden commander: Gray Merchant of Asphodel. It's a bit of a meme deck so not very powerful but perhaps somewhere in the the relaxed casual setting: it can beat an upgraded precon deck but it has nowhere near enough firepower to take on a high power deck. Essentially it tries to get Gary out as soon as possible, clone it over and over again and then blink some to drain life from my opponents. The composition is pretty standard and balanced: nothing that stands out as a winning factor. It has tutors, some counterspells and a bit of reanimation for extra stability since the deck revolves around a single card.
https://deckstats.net/decks/93006/2273854-gary-s-cloning-factory-sakashi



My Ghave, Guru of Spores is what a token deck usually isn't. It has a hidden commander: Dreadfeast Demon. It's low power but I believe it will beat precons despite its wonky and slow game plan. It's slow to get off the ground but once it does it's a mixture of rapidly snowballing combat and tokens. The tokens are used to feed the Demon and that's really what the deck does. Demons and combat. It has a lot of tutors and ways to cheat the Demon but otherwise there's nothing that really stands out. Lots of big tokenmakers and big token doublers but hopefully no infinite combos with Ghave.
https://deckstats.net/decks/93006/2390804-ghave-guru-of-demons-ghave-gur
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robort

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Re: Pre-game discussion template
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2022, 01:44:45 am »
I am playing Rith, the Awakener and it is a tokens go wide. It still can go wide even without the combo I have in it. The combo can be tutored as well with 2 cards I have in the deck. However it doesn't need the combo to win because it can make enough tokens with a haste enabler to kill the entire table. At times it will allow me to draw a massive bunch of cards while making a whole bunch of tokens along the way also ensuring me a chance to get both pieces for my combo. It tries to win on turn 7-8 but that isn't always a guarantee. The commander itself can also generate loads of tokens when I activate it's ability. Those tokens can also get extremely big as well making it go wide and big at the same time. So the whole objective is to go wide as possible and do it as fast as possible. It has some interactions but again it is just trying to outrace everyone with tokens. Yes it can be upgraded but after our league was done i just kept it this way and it just works,

https://deckstats.net/decks/52552/2217400-rith-s-riders-for-my-league
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