Politics cards done right.

[Morganator 2.0]

I'm discovering a lot of cards where their usefulness skyrockets if you employ some politics. Here are some examples:

Humble Defector

I say to people "I will give you the Humble Defector, but you have to give it back to me. Otherwise, I'll never give it to you again... Even in future games."

There are some people who don't give it back, and no, I haven't given it to them since. With this deal in effect, I'm drawing two extra cards a turn.

Flumph

This card requires people to attack you. This deal is in two parts.

• You can't be trying to kill Flumph (so nothing with deathtouch or greater than 3 power).
• You can't be trying to deal damage to me (you can only attack with 1 creature).

So if someone attacks with just their Elvish Mystic and nothing else, I choose them as the opponent to draw a card. This deal works both ways too; if I don't hold up my end of the bargain and give the card to someone else, people won't attack into Flumph anymore.

This is great because if all players abide by the Flumph deal, I'm drawing 3 extra cards each turn cycle. As a result, our playgroup is seeing an increase in the amount of people playing Flumph.


Does anyone else have any examples of cards that work much better when the politics are done right?

[mynameiscalled]

A short list of my favorites:

Scheming Symmetry
Orzhov Advokist
Loran of the Third Path
Humble Defector
Duelist's Heritage
Spurnmage Advocate
Exchange of Words

[anjinsan]

I have a long list of political cards I like: https://deckstats.net/decks/159622/1933190-political-and-metagaming-cards/en

In terms of "played right"... my favourite is probably Council's Judgement. Still a great card, but the number of times I've had to explain it to people or they've gotten it wrong...

Humble Defector is for sure one of my faves, though. People will give it right back and still feel like they owe you a favour (which they do, kinda, since you gave them something for nothing) which puts you in a great spot.

[Morganator 2.0]

Scheming Symmetry
Orzhov Advokist
Loran of the Third Path
Humble Defector
Duelist's Heritage
Spurnmage Advocate
Exchange of Words

How do you use these as political pieces? More specifically, what deals do you make, and what's the penalty if the other person breaks the deal? I'd especially like to know what the deal is for Duelist's Heritage, Exchange of Words, and Scheming Symmetry.

And for anjinsan, how do you turn pillowfort and redirect effects into politics situations?

[mynameiscalled]

First of all, a sidenote - In out playgroup, we don't break deals. At least nobody has broke one before, but I immagine if it would happen, I would probably just not make deals with said person in the future. You can, however, carefully word your deal. So, when making one, you should carefully listen the terms you agree to.

Scheming Symmetry:
Pretty easy one - You can offer a tutor in exchange for, lets say being not a target for a turn or 2, or if somebody wants to blow something of yours up, you can maybe sweet talk your way out of it with this - I've also been able to use it to deal with problematic card on board (let somebody else tutor for removal, while I search for something for my future set up, and still walk out of it like I helped the table) I am currently running this in my Queen Marchesa deck, prefer it over regular tutors in that specific deck.

Orzhov Advokist:
I used to run it in the same Queen Marchesa deck, but sadly, while I still enjoy the card, it didn't make the cut. I listed in here just so maybe somebody didnt know about it, cause it's still a sweet card.

Loran of the Third Path:
Pretty much the same use as Scheming Symmetry. Not a direct tutor but what do MTG players value above all? Yes, drawing cards, so you can form some sweet alliances (to stab them in the back later on, when the time is right) Again, running this in my Queen Marchesa and also in my Kwain, Itinerant Meddler deck.

Humble Defector:
Only running it in my Marchesa deck. Basic set up is "If I let you have it, will you give it back after activation"

Duelist's Heritage:
Encourages people to attack others cause you can pump up the dmg. If they attack you - they do less dmg, if they attack somebody else, they will do more. Ofcourse you can just pump your own creature while attacking as well, but I mostly play it to start feuds on the field and encourage people to attack each other, not me.

Spurnmage Advocate:
This is probably one of my all time favourites. It discourages people to attack you with value creatures, and at the same time you have access to all graveyards for cards that are dealing with problems on the board. Need to remove a problematic artifact? Sure, hey, player B attack me with your weakest creature, I will remove it so player C can get his Disenchant back from the graveyard etc. The possibilities are almost endless for this card to politic your way around the board.

Exchange of Words:
I am running this in my Kwain deck only, cause it matches the goofy vibe of the commander and said deck. It's a pretty recent addition. I've just found it fun to mess up the board state. You can, of course exchange the texts so that you get a strong ability for yourself, but just "Hey, thats a pretty strong creature player D is having, you want it?" is viable as well if you need somekind of immunity for future turns or need to get some kind of a deal.

[anjinsan]

And for anjinsan, how do you turn pillowfort and redirect effects into politics situations?

To clarify, that list is not uniquely political cards but also just weird stuff with bluffing or whatever and redirecty-type effect. However, pillowfort pieces typically have exactly the effect you want which is to direct attacks elsewhere. Redirect effects are more of a punisher for someone trying to use something against you; that's not political by itself unless you use many of them, and/or establish a reputation. Threatening to use a redirect effect, mind you, is (albeit "big stick" politics )

Duellist's Heritage is an excellent such effect by the way, since you can offer other people the double strike (whilst still applying it to yourself if and when you want to pivot into beating down).

Of course, any pump spell or piece of removal or whatever can be used politically in much the same manner, though I don't think I would call such things inherently political in the way that some of those dealmaking cards can be.

[robort]

About 90% of the time I don't do politics. Especially if the question is aimed at me and it is usually no. Anybody want to draw a card? No If you don't attack me I'll do this? No Who wants to search their library? No. Any type of offer is usually no. When I do say yes like the example of Humble Defector I am a man of my word and will give it back. Even with politic type cards I will just play the game and just pick somebody and let the random results dictate what is going to happen.

[anjinsan]

Is there any reason that you would choose to do that? It seems entirely suboptimal.

[Draco88]

To me, it seems suboptimal to accept deals your opponent offers.

Think about it for a second. Noone offers a deal unless that person believes they will come out of it with a net positive as it relates to their strategy and game goals. That person is not offering any deal out of the goodness of their heart or because they feel sorry for someone at the table. They are using it as a tool to help achieve their goal(s).

When my opponent offers a deal, he is not offering me something where he has a net loss in the trade. I may receive some value in the short term from the deal, but I guarantee my opponent gets something out of the deal that he places a greater value on. He wants something that will help him achieve his goals in either the short or long term. I may not see it or understand it, but it is there.

We both have a job: annihilate each other as quickly and ruthlessly as possible. I dont think helping him do that job by accepting his deals is a good idea.


Now, nothing is absolute. There is an exception to every rule, including this one. On rare occasions, a deal offered will hasten my plans and I will accept. You can also bet that my opponent didnt know this or he wouldnt have offered the deal.

As always, ymmv on this. If you think accepting deals offered to you is the way to go, by all means, Play Lets Make a Deal if you wish.
However, I generally will not.

[anjinsan]

Yes, and?

This is the whole point of politics: it's possible for two players both to gain at the same time. Otherwise, politics wouldn't exist; each action would be either good for you (and bad for your opponent) or bad for you (and good for your opponent). The only possible things that could happen would be things that one of you think is good but is actually bad, or vice versa.

Remember that your job is also to annihilate two other players. A deal may help you do that. It's a little counter-intuitive, but it's why cards like Secret Rendezvous are secretly good (and why Howling Mine effects are usually not); you can benefit another player more than you benefit yourself and it still be worth it simply because, all other things being equal, you have a greater chance of winning a game 1v1 at a disadvantage than you do beating three other players.

Often, not taking a deal is simply a net loss to yourself. There are some obvious options, of course, like "Will you take this Humble Defector and give it back, or should I give it to another player?" - there, the person offering the deal will get their cards regardless, but by not accepting you put yourself at a disadvantage and a second player ahead. In other cases it's not so clear-cut, but you still have to evaluate what the benefit is to you vs the cost, bearing in mind that the cost is usually only benefiting one of your opponents, not all of them.

[Landale]

If someone's offering you a deal it's typically one of four things.
1. You're currently in the worst position, thus the least threatening to them. Denying the deal keeps you down and widens the gap with the people that do make a deal.
2. Someone is so much a threat that an answer needs to be found, even if it's not the offerer finding it. Denying the deal allows the threat to remain unchecked.
3. The deal is offered to everyone, see Tempting Contract and the like. Denying it is only beneficial to you until someone else accepts, then you push yourself toward the worst position at the table.
4. They have no idea what they're doing. You do though right? Take the deal and pull ahead.

It is rarely ever in your best interest to let someone else take a deal when you could. Even when it's something like Scheming Symmetry, you take it and act on the assumption they're pulling out a wincon. If they're not, let it slide and you have an answer for when someone does have theirs, if they are you have the answer you need coming up and should hopefully have a way to draw it quickly if you need it immediately.

[Morganator 2.0]

This is why it's so weird for me to hear that people don't go back on deals or weasle out the technicalities. Deception is a part of this game too. Using the Scheming Symmetry example, what's really common in our playgroup is that the person casting it is looking for their win-con or a strong synergy card, so the other player searches for a counterspell or other interaction. Instead the player casting SS might say something like "I'll let you search, on the condition you don't get a counterspell", the other player agrees, and then they search for their win-con/strong synergy card/a removal spell because you didn't say anything about removal.

That's why I like the first two examples I gave. They come with a predictable consequence for not adhearing to the agreement.

[Landale]

This is why it's so weird for me to hear that people don't go back on deals or weasle out the technicalities.

I make use of exact words all the time in these kinds of situations.
On the other hand, like with Scheming Symmetry, if they can't prove something then why not take the smartest option. And again, exact words, I didn't get a counterspell from it I just put it on top of my deck and drew it with something else.

[anjinsan]

3. The deal is offered to everyone, see Tempting Contract and the like. Denying it is only beneficial to you until someone else accepts, then you push yourself toward the worst position at the table.

Technically, denying it is not beneficial to you, and accepting it often is. Obviously, it's not great if that person goes and grabs Urborg + Coffers, but such combos aside it's often better to, essentially, put yourself in second place. You average below second place so that's still a net win. 

[Landale]

3. The deal is offered to everyone, see Tempting Contract and the like. Denying it is only beneficial to you until someone else accepts, then you push yourself toward the worst position at the table.

Technically, denying it is not beneficial to you, and accepting it often is. Obviously, it's not great if that person goes and grabs Urborg + Coffers, but such combos aside it's often better to, essentially, put yourself in second place. You average below second place so that's still a net win. 

I suppose I could have worded it a little better. It's more that it doesn't change your relative position to deny it until someone else accepts.