Countering Creature Spells

[Morganator 2.0]

In Commander, I've always said that counterspells should be primarily protective. Use them to protect your boardstate or stop combos. Using counterspells the same way as removal is a bad idea. I still hold this to be true.

However, in the past I've also said that countering non-creature spells is more important than countering creature spells. This is because most targeted removal are instants and most boardwipes are sorceries, so with the focus on protecting your gameplan, you do want stuff like Swan Song and Stubborn Denial.

But now we're seeing a lot of creatures like Dockside Extortionist, Thassa's Oracle, and Massacre Girl. These things demand an immediate answer, and removal won't cut it. You need something that can counter creature spells.

Have you come across situations where you wanted to counter a creature but your spell said "counter target non-creature"? Do you think it's still true that countering non-creature spells is more important than countering creature spells? And which counterspells do you use that also affect creatures?

[Bonethousand]

I play very few counters in paper Magic, but if historic brawl on Arena has taught me anything it's that countering the abilities of creatures is essential. I really think Tale's End and Stifle are the real winners in regards to your question. Honestly, one of my favorite cards to play in simic is Repudiate // Replicate. Who cares if Dockside hits the board if all they get is a goblin?

[Landale]

There have been numerous times I've wanted to counter something, but couldn't because I had one that targets the wrong kind of spells.
I'd say the importance is about the same, though it may vary by group. And personally I'd rather counter the creature entirely rather than its abilities given that I'm more likely to see them get flickered than reanimated and it's easier to get rid of a graveyard issue than it is to waste another counter.
As for counters that can hit creatures that I use; Abjure, Arcane Denial, Counterspell, Didn't Say Please, Disallow, Drown in the Loch, Flip the Switch, Foil, Forbid, Mana Tithe, Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Thought Collapse, Tibalt's Trickery, Void Shatter, and Wash Away, as well as creatures like Daring Apprentice, Disruptive Student, Hypnotic Sprite, Overcharged Amalgam, Patron Wizard, and Wizard Replica.

[Morganator 2.0]

If you like Overcharged Amalgam there's also Ertai Resurrected if you happen to also be using black.

How has Wash Away been working for you? I've been meaning to test it out in a deck, I just don't know which one.

[Landale]

If you like Overcharged Amalgam there's also Ertai Resurrected if you happen to also be using black.

I missed that one, will have to see where I can fit it in. The Amalgam's just in Wilhelt due to various synergies including cost reductions for zombies.

How has Wash Away been working for you? I've been meaning to test it out in a deck, I just don't know which one.

For the most part it's a petty "fuck your commander" card that buys a turn or two if they're part of a combo when it's not just being Cancel. That flexibility is the main reason I run it when I wouldn't run an actual Cancel. It has pulled its weight decently enough against Mizzix, Replica Rider though, stopping quite a few shenanigans.

[Somewhitedude001]

With the foreword that this is anecdotal and every playgroup is different, I'm always finding that I both have the mana to cast and need a broader counterspell. Specifically against creatures, protecting my combo is all well and good but ending up in an untenable boardstate against value creatures makes you just as dead. I'm actually swapping out some of my counterspells in blue decks for regular interaction like Pognify & friends to handle the creature-heavy meta I'm in

[ApothecaryGeist]

Creatures come with better abilities these days.  Commander decks are running more creatures.  Because they can get that ability on a creature, and don't need to rely on just enchantments.


Because of this, the ability to counter creatures and remove creatures is becoming more important.


Lately, I have been getting a lot more use out of "counter target ability" spells like Disallow and Stifle.  If the creature gets through, at least you can stop an ability when it is really important.

[jlutzxinc]

I seem to recall catching some heat for claiming I didn't think Swan Song was good about a year ago.  In practice, my "meta" is never so cutthroat that I can't afford a whopping TWO MANA for a counterspell that DOESN'T have dumb restrictions like those.

Wash Away is one of those cards I want to use but keep forgetting to, and I certainly don't run Arcane Denial or Drown in the Loch nearly as much as I should.

Some kind of Disallow effect (especially Tale's End, or Ertai Resurrected now that he exists) is an auto-include for me, and I also love having a card like Unsubstantiate just in case they have "can't be countered".

[Morganator 2.0]

I did not expect this many people to bring up countering activated and triggered abilities. I guess it's a good time to bring up Dress Down. While not a counterspell it's becoming increasingly useful. Landale mentioned Disallow, which is the only 3 mana counterspell I use. The versatility is worth it.

What does everyone think of Defabricate and Tale's End?

[jlutzxinc]

I already answered half of that question, but unfortunately you were typing when I posted.

I like Defabricate and have forgotten to try it out; I know it's specific, but it's a sort-of Disallow and also it EXILES, which is huge IMO.

I don't like Dress Down because I tend to play Creatures too and don't want to lock MYSELF out.

[WWolfe]

I think Defrabricate is promising. I like the looks of it but haven't gotten to play it yet.

Dress Down scares me as it would shut of most of what I do in most of my decks.

[ApothecaryGeist]

What does everyone think of Defabricate and Tale's End?

I currently run Defabricate in my Duel Commander Leovold deck.  I have used it a couple times (only played one night so far).  Both times was for the Stifle.
Tale's End was in my decklist before I came across Defabricate.

[Landale]

Landale mentioned Disallow, which is the only 3 mana counterspell I use. The versatility is worth it.

What does everyone think of Defabricate and Tale's End?

For the most part I try to stick to 1-2 mana as well. Generally speaking I only make use of 3+ mana counterspells if they're packing a little something extra, synergistic with the deck as a whole, able to be cheaper, or repeatable. Repetition is especially important. For example I've got Hypnotic Sprite in Satoru Umezawa shutting down removal, only to then be used to cheat in yet another thing people would want to remove and set itself up to protect again. I don't think I've ever actually used the Mesmeric Glare portion on a creature, but it has that option.

Defabricate went into my Alandra deck to deal with things like Out of Time and Curse of Conformity, though the added flexibility of hitting activated and triggered abilities has been pretty nice. I haven't tried Tale's End at all though.

[jlutzxinc]

Landale mentioned Disallow, which is the only 3 mana counterspell I use. The versatility is worth it.

What does everyone think of Defabricate and Tale's End?

For the most part I try to stick to 1-2 mana as well. Generally speaking I only make use of 3+ mana counterspells if they're packing a little something extra, synergistic with the deck as a whole, able to be cheaper, or repeatable. Repetition is especially important. For example I've got Hypnotic Sprite in Satoru Umezawa shutting down removal, only to then be used to cheat in yet another thing people would want to remove and set itself up to protect again. I don't think I've ever actually used the Mesmeric Glare portion on a creature, but it has that option.

Defabricate went into my Alandra deck to deal with things like Out of Time and Curse of Conformity, though the added flexibility of hitting activated and triggered abilities has been pretty nice. I haven't tried Tale's End at all though.

For me, it's two mana ONLY, unless it's Disallow; most one-mana cards are too restrictive IMO.  I don't usually like Creature Counters (except for Venser, Shaper Savant and the aforementioned Disallow-on-legs Ertai Resurrected), but Hypnotic Sprite in something like Satoru Umezawa is absolutely BRILLIANT and I simply MUST pass that on to my Satoru-main friend.

Also, FARK Out of Time.  That card's so stupid it's an argument IN FAVOR OF Swan Song.

[Aetherium Slinky]

I've used Defabricate for both of its modes. It's amazing.

I also use a lot of Stifle effects in my deck; Nimble Obstructionist has been very kind to me because it cantrips.